Since lj mentions it, and we are not far from the end of the month and I still have 8 free gift articles left, this is the relevant Ezra Klein piece that Ta Nehisi Coates was addressing:
In the hope that I am done going into moderation, and further to wonkie's point about Goebbels, this is from the NYT in 1939, under the headline Goebbels Ends Careers of Five 'Aryan' Actors Who Made Witticisms About the Nazi Regime:
I normally disable what cookies I can when on any new site. I do not recall being asked about this when I first logged on here. Apparently, I have "Third Party Cookies" enabled, for what that's worth.
I thought I would see how long that last comment was in moderation, because I think last night the average for mine was about 40 minutes. It's now 21.02, so it's been in almost three hours, and I'm bored with checking on it, so this is just a catch up before I shut up shop. As I mentioned, all my boxes except website are filled and ticked. And Priest, the time stamp seems to be UK Summer Time, which is GMT+1.
How/where do you make the account. I can't find a way, and a search brought up nothing. Below my comment box I have a box for my handle, a box for my email address, an empty box (I don't have a website) and an already ticked box for "Save my name, email and website in this browser for the next time I comment".
Aha, out of the gulag! It only took about 40 minutes for both to come out.
I know almost nobody who disagrees with me about Trump, so that (luckily) doesn't arise. The exception is someone fiercely clever who has been my close friend since we were 11, and she is a tribal Republican who actually voted for Trump 3 times. I don't talk to her about it, because a) I can't bear to hear what she might say, b) I love her, and also I am worried about her cognitive decline (starting long before Trump). Now let's see if it's the gulag again...
lj, two of my comments on wonkie's post (the second one sentence saying the first is awaiting moderation) have gone into moderation! I thought this is the kind of thing you should know about!
wonkie, this is a subject which I spend a lot of time thinking about. For me, it matters most with personal friends (because I don't really have a social media presence), and luckily most of mine are roughly on the same page as me, at least about purely political issues. One exception is the Israel/Gaza situation, where someone I have known since she was a child, and whose family was and is deeply entwined with mine, is still (or was still a month or so ago) reflexively defending Israel's actions in Gaza, although not in the West Bank. She was deeply upset by my attitude and my arguments, and although I kept (civilly) making them for a while (because she is a) bright, b) a liberal/lefty, and c) generally a really good person), I stopped because I do not want her to disappear from my life or that of my family. So we have a truce, and don't discuss it. The only other friends I know who were supporting Israel wholeheartedly when we last discussed it several months ago, are non-Jewish (unlike the other friend) and rather rightwing. It will be interesting next time we talk about it to see if their attitude has changed at all in the meanwhile. The only thing which gave them pause in our last discussion was my point that Israel's actions in Gaza have done more damage to Israel than anything I have ever seen in my lifetime.
But on the subject of what kind of effect this sort of extreme argument is having on the participants, I am really worried. I have seen more and more people (including people with whom I agree) becoming more extreme and unempathetic, insulting, even cruel, in their arguments, the longer these kind of things go on. It seems to me a sort of radicalisation: not entirely surprising I suppose in people who have been defined by others in hateful ways, threatened over long periods with e.g physical violence, rape, murder etc because of their opinions, or have seen people they respect so threatened. As well as certain public figures, I have seen this "radicalisation" happen even with a few people to whom I am very close. Personally, I spend a lot of time and effort trying to make sure this doesn't happen to me - I don't want my opinion to change for any reason other than exposure to new information, or other rational (as opposed to emotional) evolution. I hope I have been reasonably successful, but it is a worry.
And, of course, on a societal level, it is a disaster. We are rapidly becoming a world in which it is impossible to have rational discussions and disagreements on many important subjects. I feel very gloomy about it.
I’m thinking that posts can no longer be the sort of writing where a position can be set out and supported by links, especially if it is a topic in the news.
Does this only apply to frontpager posts, or to all our comments from the peanut gallery? I'm asking because I never understand what exactly is a "post".
lj, I have an NYT subscription (gave up WaPo because of Bezos's craven behaviour), and would be happy to post gift links. I am allowed 10 gift articles per month, and would probably only have to save say 4 for my own purposes, so doing one a week for ObWi shouldn't be a problem. Just let me know how to do it, and also what kind of thing you would like linked, and it shall be done. Also, I have an Atlantic sub, but can't remember what the gifting rules are (I rarely read it), so let me know if there's anyone from there you'd like on ObWi and I'll look into it.
Just looked again at the mass "notification" email - some of course are anonymous, and it may just be one email, but I wonder if Donald was notified? I know some of us are very much hoping he will eventually come back!
My Charlie Kirk comment which went into moderation only had 2 links, one from the NYT and one from the Guardian. I must say I think one should easily be able to post 2 or 3 links (or even more) without the need for moderation. But the thing is, wonkie's comment on Charlie Kirk which went into moderation didn't have any links in it at all.
I see from the Excelsior thread that posts with links do not automatically go into moderation. So maybe it's to do with anything tagged "Charlie Kirk", which wonkie's 5.55 might suggest? Does anybody know how this works - maybe it's because it's a new blog site for us, or is it because Big Brother is watching?
Ha! Since you ask, I am going to link something I wouldn't assume is for ObWi, since it relates purely to a rather controversial piece of legislation which is currently trying to make its way through parliament on assisted dying, and which some of my friends are involved in. So this is by way of a test, to see if posts with links automatically go into moderation:
lj, I imagine this has taken and is taking you huge amounts of time and effort, when you do have a day job! I hope it's clear that any comments of mine about the new site are purely for the sake of alerting you (and everyone) about any glitches, or changes from the status quo ante (like the possibility that posts with links are delayed for moderation, as on the Charlie Kirk piece. Eeek, does that mean you are going to have to spend time doing the moderation as well??).
I knew barely anything about Charlie Kirk, but reading some of the absolutely appalling things he has said and advocated, I was truly revolted. This doesn't of course mean that I rejoice in or welcome his assassination; the political and ideological polarisation in America is quite terrifying enough, without bringing murder into it. What really scares me is the moving of the Overton Window; because of Kirk and people like him it seems increasingly possible to insult people's character and intelligence on the basis of their race and attract millions of fans and followers as a consequence. And, on the same Overton Window issue, normalising discussion of whether women should have the right to vote really scares me:
In trying to work out how to navigate the archive site, I clicked on the Andrew Olmsted stuff. A couple of things (this is not a complaint - God knows that would be ridiculous from someone as clueless as me), just feedback about stuff you may already know about:
1. Both "hilzoy's Final Post" and "Andrew's final post" seem to go to the same post, called "Remembering Andy Olmsted".
2. Since I couldn't find the long thread of the comments, I went into the calendar archive, and as far as I could see none of the posts include the threads of comments. Am I missing something obvious, is this the new normal, or is this going to change?
Hallelujah! So many thanks to Michael, lj, Janie and anybody else who was involved. Days without a check in to ObWi felt weird - I'm so very glad it's back!
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.
On “We are all Usain Bolt now”
Maybe it's just me, but it's quite hard to interact with someone whose handle is '
On “Precursors”
Since lj mentions it, and we are not far from the end of the month and I still have 8 free gift articles left, this is the relevant Ezra Klein piece that Ta Nehisi Coates was addressing:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/11/opinion/charlie-kirk-assassination-fear-politics.html?unlocked_article_code=1.nU8.Vndl.HW2nTIeTvTs-&smid=url-share
On “Guestpost from Wonkie”
In the hope that I am done going into moderation, and further to wonkie's point about Goebbels, this is from the NYT in 1939, under the headline Goebbels Ends Careers of Five 'Aryan' Actors Who Made Witticisms About the Nazi Regime:
https://www.nytimes.com/1939/02/04/archives/goebbels-ends-careers-of-five-aryan-actors-who-made-witticisms.html?unlocked_article_code=1.nE8.IExY.Y2cofB8EzqsL&smid=url-share
On “Notes about commenting”
And, amazingly, that did not go into moderation! lj must have performed some magic...
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I normally disable what cookies I can when on any new site. I do not recall being asked about this when I first logged on here. Apparently, I have "Third Party Cookies" enabled, for what that's worth.
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Correction: the time stamp was 8.05, which is indeed GMT, so the first comment had been in moderation for almost two hours.
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I thought I would see how long that last comment was in moderation, because I think last night the average for mine was about 40 minutes. It's now 21.02, so it's been in almost three hours, and I'm bored with checking on it, so this is just a catch up before I shut up shop. As I mentioned, all my boxes except website are filled and ticked. And Priest, the time stamp seems to be UK Summer Time, which is GMT+1.
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Another test comment. Let's see
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How/where do you make the account. I can't find a way, and a search brought up nothing. Below my comment box I have a box for my handle, a box for my email address, an empty box (I don't have a website) and an already ticked box for "Save my name, email and website in this browser for the next time I comment".
On “Guestpost from Wonkie”
Aha, out of the gulag! It only took about 40 minutes for both to come out.
I know almost nobody who disagrees with me about Trump, so that (luckily) doesn't arise. The exception is someone fiercely clever who has been my close friend since we were 11, and she is a tribal Republican who actually voted for Trump 3 times. I don't talk to her about it, because a) I can't bear to hear what she might say, b) I love her, and also I am worried about her cognitive decline (starting long before Trump). Now let's see if it's the gulag again...
On “Excelsior 2.0: more details about the site and requests”
lj, two of my comments on wonkie's post (the second one sentence saying the first is awaiting moderation) have gone into moderation! I thought this is the kind of thing you should know about!
On “Guestpost from Wonkie”
And again, for no reason I can make out, my comment is "awaiting moderation".
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wonkie, this is a subject which I spend a lot of time thinking about. For me, it matters most with personal friends (because I don't really have a social media presence), and luckily most of mine are roughly on the same page as me, at least about purely political issues. One exception is the Israel/Gaza situation, where someone I have known since she was a child, and whose family was and is deeply entwined with mine, is still (or was still a month or so ago) reflexively defending Israel's actions in Gaza, although not in the West Bank. She was deeply upset by my attitude and my arguments, and although I kept (civilly) making them for a while (because she is a) bright, b) a liberal/lefty, and c) generally a really good person), I stopped because I do not want her to disappear from my life or that of my family. So we have a truce, and don't discuss it. The only other friends I know who were supporting Israel wholeheartedly when we last discussed it several months ago, are non-Jewish (unlike the other friend) and rather rightwing. It will be interesting next time we talk about it to see if their attitude has changed at all in the meanwhile. The only thing which gave them pause in our last discussion was my point that Israel's actions in Gaza have done more damage to Israel than anything I have ever seen in my lifetime.
But on the subject of what kind of effect this sort of extreme argument is having on the participants, I am really worried. I have seen more and more people (including people with whom I agree) becoming more extreme and unempathetic, insulting, even cruel, in their arguments, the longer these kind of things go on. It seems to me a sort of radicalisation: not entirely surprising I suppose in people who have been defined by others in hateful ways, threatened over long periods with e.g physical violence, rape, murder etc because of their opinions, or have seen people they respect so threatened. As well as certain public figures, I have seen this "radicalisation" happen even with a few people to whom I am very close. Personally, I spend a lot of time and effort trying to make sure this doesn't happen to me - I don't want my opinion to change for any reason other than exposure to new information, or other rational (as opposed to emotional) evolution. I hope I have been reasonably successful, but it is a worry.
And, of course, on a societal level, it is a disaster. We are rapidly becoming a world in which it is impossible to have rational discussions and disagreements on many important subjects. I feel very gloomy about it.
On “Excelsior 2.0: more details about the site and requests”
I’m thinking that posts can no longer be the sort of writing where a position can be set out and supported by links, especially if it is a topic in the news.
Does this only apply to frontpager posts, or to all our comments from the peanut gallery? I'm asking because I never understand what exactly is a "post".
"
lj, I have an NYT subscription (gave up WaPo because of Bezos's craven behaviour), and would be happy to post gift links. I am allowed 10 gift articles per month, and would probably only have to save say 4 for my own purposes, so doing one a week for ObWi shouldn't be a problem. Just let me know how to do it, and also what kind of thing you would like linked, and it shall be done. Also, I have an Atlantic sub, but can't remember what the gifting rules are (I rarely read it), so let me know if there's anyone from there you'd like on ObWi and I'll look into it.
On “Excelsior!”
Thanks, lj.
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Just looked again at the mass "notification" email - some of course are anonymous, and it may just be one email, but I wonder if Donald was notified? I know some of us are very much hoping he will eventually come back!
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My Charlie Kirk comment which went into moderation only had 2 links, one from the NYT and one from the Guardian. I must say I think one should easily be able to post 2 or 3 links (or even more) without the need for moderation. But the thing is, wonkie's comment on Charlie Kirk which went into moderation didn't have any links in it at all.
On “Kuzushi and Charlie Kirk”
I see from the Excelsior thread that posts with links do not automatically go into moderation. So maybe it's to do with anything tagged "Charlie Kirk", which wonkie's 5.55 might suggest? Does anybody know how this works - maybe it's because it's a new blog site for us, or is it because Big Brother is watching?
On “Excelsior!”
Ha! Since you ask, I am going to link something I wouldn't assume is for ObWi, since it relates purely to a rather controversial piece of legislation which is currently trying to make its way through parliament on assisted dying, and which some of my friends are involved in. So this is by way of a test, to see if posts with links automatically go into moderation:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2025/09/the-lords-must-fix-the-dangerous-assisted-dying-bill
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lj, I imagine this has taken and is taking you huge amounts of time and effort, when you do have a day job! I hope it's clear that any comments of mine about the new site are purely for the sake of alerting you (and everyone) about any glitches, or changes from the status quo ante (like the possibility that posts with links are delayed for moderation, as on the Charlie Kirk piece. Eeek, does that mean you are going to have to spend time doing the moderation as well??).
On “Kuzushi and Charlie Kirk”
My comment on this is apparently "awaiting moderation". Maybe because it has links?
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I knew barely anything about Charlie Kirk, but reading some of the absolutely appalling things he has said and advocated, I was truly revolted. This doesn't of course mean that I rejoice in or welcome his assassination; the political and ideological polarisation in America is quite terrifying enough, without bringing murder into it. What really scares me is the moving of the Overton Window; because of Kirk and people like him it seems increasingly possible to insult people's character and intelligence on the basis of their race and attract millions of fans and followers as a consequence. And, on the same Overton Window issue, normalising discussion of whether women should have the right to vote really scares me:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/14/opinion/douglas-wilson-evangelical-hegseth.html?unlocked_article_code=1.l08.9djO.hh9sD539663c&smid=url-share
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/sep/13/womens-suffrage-week-in-patriarchy
On “Excelsior!”
In trying to work out how to navigate the archive site, I clicked on the Andrew Olmsted stuff. A couple of things (this is not a complaint - God knows that would be ridiculous from someone as clueless as me), just feedback about stuff you may already know about:
1. Both "hilzoy's Final Post" and "Andrew's final post" seem to go to the same post, called "Remembering Andy Olmsted".
2. Since I couldn't find the long thread of the comments, I went into the calendar archive, and as far as I could see none of the posts include the threads of comments. Am I missing something obvious, is this the new normal, or is this going to change?
On “What to do?”
Hallelujah! So many thanks to Michael, lj, Janie and anybody else who was involved. Days without a check in to ObWi felt weird - I'm so very glad it's back!
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.