by liberal japonicus
I’m probably pushing this out too quickly, but I feel like if I just leave the open thread post up, it will reach the Tolman-Oppenheimer-Volkoff limit of dark thoughts (I think we are past the Chandrasekhar Limit) and on the way of becoming a neutron star of depression). So, sports fandom.
My wife has recently become a baseball fan. She doesn’t read the blog and would probably take great exception to this, she would say that she has always liked Japanese HS baseball (which is pretty hardcore, see here), but for the obvious totally impartial observer, she has kicked it into another gear.
And why, you may ask? It’s hard to say, and it is complicated a bit by Ohtani’s start. However, when Ohtani moved to the Dodgers and they brought in Yamamoto and Sasaki, she was pretty much hooked. I can’t put my finger on a precise moment, but I am sure that when Ohtani was in the wilderness that was the Angels from 2017, she didn’t pay much attention to him. To be fair to my wife, he didn’t have a great start and the COVID shortened season made it difficult to follow clubs and players. But him playing for Japan in the World Baseball Classic and then moving to the Dodgers seemed to be when the dam burst.
If you know about baseball, you know what a unicorn Otani is, and if you don’t, I’m not sure how to explain how good he is. But to put it in a little perspective, Bill James, a famous baseball statistican, noted that if you gathered every single person who has ever put on an MLB uniform in history from players like Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb to players who only had one at-bat, and sat them all down in Wrigley Field (capacity ~41,600) or Fenway Park (capacity ~37,700), the stadium would be barely half full. And when you take that rarified group and realize that Ohtani is someone who might be head and shoulders above almost all of them, you get an idea.
But I don’t want to give you lots of baseball anecdotes, I wanted to delve into why my wife’s fandom is strangely and subtly different from mine. A girlfriend in uni said that I was a ‘sports homo’, by which she meant that I would hang out with guys to watch sports. The high water mark (or nadir, depending on how you take it) was when a bunch of college friends, in the early days of ESPN, ended up watching every game but one of March Madness. AI gave me this, but it sounds like the quote I was thinking of, but in an interview, someone asked Chomsky about people’s ability to analyze politics, and he replied
When I’m driving, I sometimes turn on the radio and I find very often that what I’m listening to is a discussion of sports… People call in and have long and intricate discussions, and it’s plain that quite a high degree of thought and analysis is going into that. People know a tremendous amount… They don’t care if they disagree with the coach… They have their own opinion and they conduct intelligent discussions…
But the sort of fandom that I participated (and still engage in from time to time) is not the same as what my wife does. I’ve noted that my wife is first attracted to a person and then to the sport. For example, she really liked Asada Mao, the figure skater and so I was getting explanations about the difference between a lutz and a salchow or a toe loop and an axel. When Asada retired, it was like a light switch went off. She (the skater, not my wife) is famous enough in Japan to have her own Ice Capades like series of events, and my wife attended two of those, but she is not in competition, so the sports aspect of it is not really there.
My wife started to get interested in Naomi Osaka and tennis, which she had played in university, but Osaka’s stepping back from the spotlight meant that she didn’t dive all the way in.
But Ohtani and now Yamamoto and Suzuki, oh boy, it is on. And what is interesting is that seeing her fandom compared to mine, there are things that pop up and have me wondering. For example, she’s got no interest in other teams except when they are (boooo!) playing the Dodgers. Even though we have a hometown boy, Munetaka Murakami, who is making a big splash with the White Sox, that doesn’t interest her. She will tolerate stories about the Dodgers, (I was trying to explain to her about Fernando Valenzuela ‘breathing through his eyelids’) but the Dodgers were playing the Pirates and I tried to explain how cool Willie Stargell was when he came out swinging a sledgehammer and she said ‘geez, wasn’t that dangerous?’.
I told someone else that my wife engages in ‘Tigerbeat’ fandom, which sounds dismissive, but I think gets at something. My wife’s attention has expanded from the three Japanese players to all the other players on the team. Kiki Hernandez’s wife is a fashion model and their daughter is Penelope, who he dotes on. Freddie Freeman’s mom passed away from melanoma, which is why Freeman always wears a long sleeve jersey. A game broadcast is starting and Freeman’s son Charlie is throwing out the first pitch and she says ‘oh yeah, it’s Freddie’s bobble head night.’
So I define this as tigerbeat fandom, but I’m confronted with the question of why the things I’m interested in (OBP, WAR, yada yada) are somehow more important ‘facts’ than what my wife seems to know.
There is also another layer to this, which is why the Dodgers have become the darlings of Japan. NHK, the Japanese national broadcaster, has a contract with MLB, and Gemini tells me that between 70-80% of the Dodger games are broadcast live on NHK’s satellite channel and of all the MLB games broadcast on NHK, 45-50% are the Dodgers, with the other games often being ones that have a Japanese player playing. Almost all of Ohtani’s salary was deferred, in part so they could pursue other players.
That salary was also the object of a lot of discussion, especially since Ohtani was signed for three quarters of a billion dollars. I’m not exactly sure about the amounts, but after Ohtani’s signing, the Dodgers signed sponsorship deals with a number of Japanese brands, which most definitely offset any current salary (though not sure how it works with the deferred salary) Ohtani’s brand is such that Japanese companies splashed on 15 million dollars on Dodger away games, just to bask in Ohtani’s glory.
On the other pole, it is World Cup time and I really don’t know if I can bring myself to watch any games. I’m sorry I don’t have links, but FIFA is engaged in gouging as many people as possible for the tournament, and I don’t understand why there were no boycotts. Maybe it would have been meaningless, but if the UK, Spain, France, Germany and the UK (England and Scotland) had just not gone, it might have sent a message. Of course, the problem with that is that I want them to send a message.
And if Norway had boycotted the tournament, we would have missed this
But my worry now is that Japan will win it all, but there will be an asterisk next to that because of riots during the game or ICE detaining half of the Iran team or some such other shit.
Anyway, a sports fandom thread.
I’m going to come at this from a different direction, with obvious crossover.
I’ve been a fan of several professional sports over the years, and my wife and I have both been fans of the Colorado Avalanche since their inaugural season. Currently I’m not following many pro sports leagues, largely because I think that the money and the media narratives are unhealthy for them. I stopped with the NFL two decades ago, and with the Bundesliga and the UEFA Champions League in 2013, after watching most of Bayern Munich’s matches for the season and seeing them win the Treble. The following season the team sacked the manager to bring in Pep Guardiola, and I started to sour on all the elitism and sportswashing. We’ve stuck with the NHL, but it’s been harder to follow since we left Colorado for So Cal in 2004.
Now the crossover.
In 2024 I ran across some news about the Professional Women’s Hockey League (PWHL) and saw that they were streaming all of their games in the US on YouTube. I figured that my wife would really love watching women’s hockey, so I convinced her to watch the first match of their second season. She was hooked. We ended up watching most of the matches for the season, and for this last season.
The PWHL is founded on an agreement between the Professional Women’s Hockey Players Association (PWHPA) – the player union – and The Walter Group (owned by Mark Walter, who also owns the LA Dodgers). The PWHL also has Billie Jean King and her wife, Ilana Kloss on the board, and Ilana Kloss serves as an advisor for the PWHPA.
After two years of being a fan of the PWHL, I can say that the fan culture in the PWHL is very different from that of the NHL. NHL teams do have their fan favorite players, and personality does play a role in that, but the ebb and flow of that favor is more fleeting and transactional. On the women’s side, the fan attachment is much more personal, with supporter groups often forming strong bonds with players who are closer to the bottom of the roster, but who have some quality or narrative that the fans find engaging. I’ve seen this go so far as to cause supporter groups to advocate for their team protecting one of the role-players from the league expansion draft at the expense of players who were far more pivotal to the team’s success. There’s also a strong community element in this. The PWHL fandom has a strong LGBTQ+ contingent, and a strong commitment to developing more opportunities for young girls to play the sport. As such, the league fan-favorites are mostly players known for their commitment to inclusivity and to growing the women’s game, and the fan-villain is the one player who has been most active in anti-trans women’s sports activism.
It’s much more intimate and personal. It’s also a lot less toxic than men’s sports culture with the endless hazing and dominance rituals. I do not miss any of that.
If anyone really wants to dig into women’s sports-fan culture, then the big-three women’s team sports leagues (WNBA, NWSL, WSL, PWHL) are all good places to start.
Meanwhile, I’m sad that I have to wait until November to watch my next PWHL game. And quite anxious to see what will become of the teams now that the league is expanding from eight to twelve teams. There’s going to be a lot of upheaval in team rosters and that’s really going to test these fan loyalties both to players and to teams. Every season is a learning experience.
I remember having one of those get acquainted conversations with some guy–maybe it was a job interview? It was some guy I felt instinctively alienated from, not in a hostile way, but in a “I don’t think we are quite the same species” way. I think he had the same instinctive reaction to me because, to form a connection, he asked, “Your husband, which is he? Basketball or football?” I had to say, to our mutual dismay, I think, “Neither. He’s into camping, hiking, kayaking, stuff like that.”
I don’t remember this conversation well except for the sinking feeling that he and I were going to shortly head in different directions due to mutual feelings of incomprehension.
Note: he asked about my husband. He assumed that as a female I wouldn’t be into sports. Well, he was right!
Meanwhile, as an anecdote to reality, my husband has started following sports: first college basketball, followed by professional basketball, and recently (out of desperation) soccer, English rugby, and the Seattle’s women’s rugby team.
What kind of fan is he? I think he likes watching people do something they are good at. He doesn’t seem to have heroes though he does get involved in the data about team performance.
I like watching individuals doing something they are good at, rather than teams, so I watch the Olympics track and field, the skating, and the winter sports that involve jumping into the air and doing things while airborne.
I’m generally a casual sports fan but with specific points of greater interest (professional home teams and, to a lesser degree, my alma mater’s teams). I like watching games and digging into stats. I’m not interested in the goings-on behind the scenes other than things like how long a given sufficiently valuable player might be out for an injury – things that directly bear on what happens on the field.
The sport I most enjoyed watching without ever having seen it before (probably hadn’t even heard of it) was hurling while on vacation in Ireland. It was at the time of the 2001 all-Ireland semifinals. It was instantly compelling in a way no other new sport has been for me.
Yet I still haven’t watched it since. I should look into it again.
How people become fans, and of what, is an interesting question. Also why they cease to be.** My sister and I are both baseball fans. Probably has something to do with Dad not only playing it, but having spent a few years in the Cubs farm system. Neither of our brothers have the slightest interest. But the two of us spend the season texting comments, notes about particular spectacular plays, and rude remarks about the trades that the front office makes.
I would also note that different sports have to be enjoyed different ways. American football pretty much requires television. Otherwise you can’t really understand what is happening; in person is what you do for the crowd, because you can’t really tell what is happening on the field in any detail.
Basketball, in contrast, is practically incomprehensible on TV. To follow what’s happening, you really have to be there in person.
As for baseball, I’d argue that it’s basically a radio game. You can enjoy what’s happening in person or on TV. But most of the time, nothing is happening. With the game on the radio, you can be doing something else, and stop occasionally when something happens. In college, I would listen while working thru problem sets: do a problem, stop to listen as something happens, do another problem, stop while something happens. The timing seemed almost perfect.
** I used to watch a lot of NFL football. But as the evidence of the brain injuries that kids were taking mounted I had to walk away.
Fixed that for you. He is, and it’s not even close.
I’ve been a tennis fan since my early teens, mainly Wimbledon, and mostly the men’s game. I lost interest during the Pete Sampras serve-and-volley era, because the rallies had become short, and the game became (to me) essentially boring. My interest picked up during the Federer period, because of the grace and elegance of his play, and then sharpened because of Nadal and his astounding, explosive physicality. And now, I find the rivalry between Alcaraz and Sinner (hopefully soon to resume) fascinating, mainly because while Sinner is a tennis machine, Alcaraz is one of those players who is capable of creativity and genius. I don’t think any of this is because of their personalities exactly, it’s always their style. I think John McEnroe is a terrific commentator – possibly the best.
Query: when Americans talk about hockey, do they always mean ice hockey? In the UK (and I think in Europe) it means field hockey.
In the US and Canada, “hockey” is almost always “ice hockey,” and “field hockey” is almost always marked as such.
Basketball, in contrast, is practically incomprehensible on TV. To follow what’s happening, you really have to be there in person.
16:9 aspect ratio and big screens and directors that make use of them have helped a lot.
American football pretty much requires television.
I went to high school in Nebraska when the Cornhuskers were becoming a national football power. Due to the broadcast rules of the time and the importance of market size, there might be one regular season game on TV in a season. But a good radio announcer, some imagination, and some knowledge of how the team played was sufficient.
I blame the same thing for the decline of reading. Building a picture in your head of what’s happening in the story from the printed words takes effort, and practice. Free TV was the beginning of the end.
Appreciate everyone jumping in.
About personality based fandom and nous’ observations, yes, I see that in my wife. Not sure if you follow it closely, but if you do, I was wondering about what you thought about Catlin Clark? I’m not a follower, but clips have gotten in my feed and I see her getting beat up and not getting any protection from the ref (and she may be giving as good as she is getting, but a facebook algorithm isn’t tuned for balance) Reporting pushes the racial undertone to the whole situation, but it seems a lot of it is ginned up by the media
https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/ncaa-basketball/news/caitlin-clark-angel-reese-beef-history-explained-iowa-lsu/e73dd26ee42cb1928ed9ef51
Anyway, any thoughts on that?
wj, my caution with Ohtani is because there may have been hitters better than Ohtani and there may have been pitchers better than Ohtani, but it’s really hard to think that he does both. I also think that one reason there have been no hitters like Ohtani was that pitchers could plunk hitter before, but with the tighter leash held by umpires, he’s able to set up. Bonds in particular holds that view, but I’m not sure how convinced I am by the argument.
The only historical case I can remember, of someone who was both a great hitter and an excellent pitcher, is Babe Ruth. For those who don’t know baseball history, Ruth was originally a pitcher. And, from what I’ve seen, a very good one. In 1916, he went head to head with Walter Johnson, regarded as one of if not the greatest major league pitchers ever (some of his records still stand), 5 times — won 4, lost one. He also set a major league shutout record that stood until 1978.
Ruth’s hitting ability is famous. But it should be recognized that he had the advantage of being followed in the Yankee batting order by Joe DiMaggio** and two other guys hitting over .400 — famous as “Murderers Row”. In short, there was no way to pitch around him.
Ohtani did brilliantly with the Angels, even though he was something of a one man show. And he set hitting and pitching records Since moving to the Dodgers, he’s got great players around him like Ruth did. He’s setting more records, and looks to be on track to win the Cy Young Award (for the best pitcher in each league) as well as yet another MVP.
** The year Ruth famously set a record by hitting 60 home runs, he was not the MVP. DiMaggio was.
Hope wj hasn’t been replaced by “ai”, but Joe DiMaggio’s rookie season was 1936, Ruth’s last season with the Yankees was 1934, and he retired early in the 1935 season, so their careers did not overlap at all. I believe he meant Lou Gehrig.
Also, no Yankees hitter has ever batted.400.
I did, indeed. Thanks for catching that.