State of the Discussion

The posts in play...

A New Gilded Age
(53)
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The comments...

GftNC
+ Side note on "smart" and "posh": Bryan Ferry is an interesting case. Working class, but attended that crucible of 60s upward (and other [. . .]
wj
+ Or, you could just go: pick the first of the remaining choices the first time, then the second the next, then the third (if there [. . .]
Snarki, child of Loki
+ wj: to make your strategy work properly it requires generating an actual random choice. PRO TIP: #2 pencils used for multiple-choice have 6 sides: using a [. . .]
wj
+ a kid who aces his college boards is probably pretty smart Or clever enough that you can get a pretty high, at least way above chance, [. . .]
russell
+ my perception of American English has both "crafty" and "cunning" as something that is intentionally deceptive When my step-son was born, my wife's Scottish then mother-in-law [. . .]
russell
+ In computer programming, it usually means things like really obscure code that exploits some odd aspect of the programming language I used to refer to that [. . .]
liberal japonicus

found this
https://blog.oup.com/2023/11/clever-hans-and-beyond/
possibly clever is related to clamber and climb, in the sense of being nimble.

nous
+ Michael - My use of clever doesn't necessitate intentional deception, it just makes room for it in the name of getting the job done - [. . .]
Pro Bono

I doubt that "clever" has got anything to do with "cleaver". It might be related to "claw".

Michael Cain

I would add that my perception of American English has both "crafty" and "cunning" as something that is intentionally deceptive, where "clever" is not.

liberal japonicus
+ I think both smart and clever are secondary terms, the base meaning of smart was painful or cutting (Ouch, that smarts!), while cleaver was probably [. . .]
Pro Bono
+ The distinction between "smart" and "clever" noted by US commentators doesn't, so far as I'm aware, exist in British English. I think "smart" here refers to [. . .]
GftNC
+ How fascinating, I have just looked up smart in the OED and the main usage for e.g. clothes seems to be "Attractively neat and stylish, [. . .]
Tony P.
+ British usages have long interested me. GftNC's observation that "smart" more or less equals "posh", for instance. I remember reading somewhere that, at one time [. . .]
GftNC
+ Interestingly, none of you seem to be talking about "intelligent" as opposed to the other two words. It's hard for me to get my [. . .]
nous
+ I tend to think of "smart" as being driven by knowledge and "clever" as being driven by wits. It's probably something like the Platonic difference [. . .]
bobbyp

wj,
Was Ted Kaczynski not both smart and clever? Just spit balling here.

wj
+ I think that the difference between "smart" and "clever" is mostly a matter of culture (if that's the right term). It's about what you [. . .]
Michael Cain
+ For me, the difference between "smart" and "clever" is mostly about scale. Smart operates on a larger scale than clever. The phrase "too clever for [. . .]
GftNC
+ They would rather be clever than smart, and they relished the idea of their cleverness winning over their customer's intelligence. Leaving the gilded age aside, I [. . .]
Michael Cain
+ I've never been to either the Hearst Castle or the Carnegie Mansion in NYC. Are they really as dismally dark as they look in the [. . .]
wj
+ sneering at someone's ignorance, particularly in the matter of taste, immediately marks one out as a member of the kind of "elites" that have understandably [. . .]
Snarki, child of Loki

Interesting to compare Trump's "style" with that at Hearst's Castle.

nous
+ The "Regional Car Dealership" thing is, to my way of thinking, less about class and more about a particular attitude towards salesmanship. In the decade between [. . .]
GftNC
+ Trump is a vulgar clown, and his residence in Trump Tower reflects that. I don't care. Whatever floats his boat. But that kind of garish, ostentatious [. . .]
nous
+ There's a strong strain of punitive Jantelagen on the right these days: You're not to think you are anything special. You're not to think you are as [. . .]
russell
+ I couldn't shake the feeling that sneering at someone's ignorance, particularly in the matter of taste, immediately marks one out as a member of the [. . .]
GftNC
+ Cheez Whiz: it wasn't so much the piece I was talking about (as I said I found it interesting and informative), as the reaction it [. . .]
Cheez Whiz
+ Well, the tone I got from that McMansion piece was how RCDC was a corruption of the thought-out sources it munges together that simply juxtaposes [. . .]
wj
+ Looks like a relatively normal room. I'd describe it as grad student / working class (i. e. without a lot of excess cash), but [. . .]
Michael Cain
+ Other than a "this looks like pictures I've seen" sort of observation, I really don't have any room to criticize decorating choices. My wife [. . .]
GftNC
+ PS Maybe it's because such matters in the UK are so absolutely coded by social class, and awareness of that and its myriad disadvantages [. . .]
GftNC
+ I enjoyed Cheez Whiz's link, which was interesting and informative. I laughed at Regional Car Dealership Rococo (it's perfect!), but it still left me [. . .]
russell
+ At the risk of trafficking in stereotypes, IMO DJT's taste in decor (and many other things as well) can be attributed to "he's a not [. . .]
Cheez Whiz
+ The woman who had that McMansion hell website has a Patreon, and she recently posted a dive into what she calls Regional Car Dealership Roccoco, [. . .]
liberal japonicus
+ Yarvin has spent the morning chatting about Austrian economics with 86-year-old crossbench peer and Keynes biographer Lord Skidelsky. I have to admit, every time I [. . .]
russell
+ Whenever I read anything by Yarvin, I feel like I'm back in college listening to some zero-social-skill rando who overdosed on Ayn Rand in high [. . .]
GftNC
+ hsh: I agree. But I liked her take on it He begins telling me about how America’s biggest problem is “decades of mass immigration”. [. . .]
hairshirthedonist

GftNC, it made me a little nauseated. Weirdos in a bad way. I'd take an hour-long shower after being at that gathering.

GftNC
+ A bunch of people I read were talking very enthusiastically about this piece by a FT journalist who went to a party for Curtis Yarvin [. . .]
Hartmut
+ Napoleon III was more into kitsch art afaik. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_Venus_(Cabanel) The reproductions I can find on the net all lack the correct (and aesthetically sickening) ivory/pink shade and [. . .]
Snarki, child of Loki

The casino is down the street, at will formerly be The Treasury Building.

wj
+ Thank your lucky stars that Strump hasn't razed the White House and replaced it with a garish casino. Yet. Gotta save a few big [. . .]
bobbyp

Thank your lucky stars that Strump hasn't razed the White House and replaced it with a garish casino.

Snarki, child of Loki

IIRC Napoleon I was more "over-the-top bad taste", but that may just be he has more stuff to see in Paris, and what I saw.

Hartmut

Snarki, Napoleon I or III or both?

Hartmut
+ I have to admit that everytime these inland forages of oceans come up, I have to struggle whether they are spelled with a u or [. . .]
Snarki, child of Loki
+ Harmut's typos make me laugh, but I want to extend them, from: "His Orangeness and his role models round the Persion Golf" to "His Orangeness and his role [. . .]