Michael - My use of clever doesn't necessitate intentional deception, it just makes room for it in the name of getting the job done - which probably means that it maps well onto your usage of "cunning."
2025-08-14 17:56:37
I tend to think of "smart" as being driven by knowledge and "clever" as being driven by wits. It's probably something like the Platonic difference between a philosopher and a sophist (even if the sophists are given a bum rap by Platonism). The clever person is less concerned with being right and more concerned with achieving their ends. Smart prefers appeals to logos and forming an stratigic,objective understanding of the situation. Clever prefers appeals to pathos and takes a more tactical and subjective approach.
I take it from the conversation here that my sense of those terms may be idiosyncratic?
2025-08-13 20:16:37
The "Regional Car Dealership" thing is, to my way of thinking, less about class and more about a particular attitude towards salesmanship.
In the decade between my sophomore and junior year of college, I did (among other things) customer service work for a credit card, a homebuilder, and an internet start up, and rubbed shoulders with a lot of people in sales. Most of them were entirely indifferent to the merits of the actual product, and they often didn't understand the actual thing being sold. You know the type. It was all about the hustle, and about status and appearances.
One of the memories that stuck with me from that time was the day that the sales manager at the startup put up a banner in the sales area that read "The world is run by C students" as a way to motivate his salespeople.
There's a lot to unpack in that, between the sort of anti-elitism at the core, and the idea that C-student is a sort of identity to embrace. They would rather be clever than smart, and they relished the idea of their cleverness winning over their customer's intelligence.
This is what I was thinking about when I saw "Regional Car Dealership."
2025-08-13 19:17:31
There's a strong strain of punitive Jantelagen on the right these days: You're not to think you are anything special.
You're not to think you are as good as we are.
You're not to think you are smarter than we are.
You're not to imagine yourself better than we are.
You're not to think you know more than we do.
You're not to think you are more important than we are.
You're not to think you are good at anything.
You're not to laugh at us.
You're not to think anyone cares about you.
You're not to think you can teach us anything. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante
They feel small and overlooked and they fear that everyone else thinks that they are simple and stupid. And they have become fear-biters over it.
Ironic that they are so dismissive of the micro-agressions thing, since they have their own version of it going on all the time.
The only alternative, though, is to limit oneself to commonplaces and small talk, and not voice any opinion on any matter of taste.
I've become largely silent where my siblings and their families are concerned. Too many landmines lying about.
Michael - My use of clever doesn't necessitate intentional deception, it just makes room for it in the name of getting the job done - which probably means that it maps well onto your usage of "cunning."
I tend to think of "smart" as being driven by knowledge and "clever" as being driven by wits. It's probably something like the Platonic difference between a philosopher and a sophist (even if the sophists are given a bum rap by Platonism). The clever person is less concerned with being right and more concerned with achieving their ends. Smart prefers appeals to logos and forming an stratigic,objective understanding of the situation. Clever prefers appeals to pathos and takes a more tactical and subjective approach.
I take it from the conversation here that my sense of those terms may be idiosyncratic?
The "Regional Car Dealership" thing is, to my way of thinking, less about class and more about a particular attitude towards salesmanship.
In the decade between my sophomore and junior year of college, I did (among other things) customer service work for a credit card, a homebuilder, and an internet start up, and rubbed shoulders with a lot of people in sales. Most of them were entirely indifferent to the merits of the actual product, and they often didn't understand the actual thing being sold. You know the type. It was all about the hustle, and about status and appearances.
One of the memories that stuck with me from that time was the day that the sales manager at the startup put up a banner in the sales area that read "The world is run by C students" as a way to motivate his salespeople.
There's a lot to unpack in that, between the sort of anti-elitism at the core, and the idea that C-student is a sort of identity to embrace. They would rather be clever than smart, and they relished the idea of their cleverness winning over their customer's intelligence.
This is what I was thinking about when I saw "Regional Car Dealership."
There's a strong strain of punitive Jantelagen on the right these days:
You're not to think you are anything special.
You're not to think you are as good as we are.
You're not to think you are smarter than we are.
You're not to imagine yourself better than we are.
You're not to think you know more than we do.
You're not to think you are more important than we are.
You're not to think you are good at anything.
You're not to laugh at us.
You're not to think anyone cares about you.
You're not to think you can teach us anything.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante
They feel small and overlooked and they fear that everyone else thinks that they are simple and stupid. And they have become fear-biters over it.
Ironic that they are so dismissive of the micro-agressions thing, since they have their own version of it going on all the time.
The only alternative, though, is to limit oneself to commonplaces and small talk, and not voice any opinion on any matter of taste.
I've become largely silent where my siblings and their families are concerned. Too many landmines lying about.