russell - As an aside, this has always been one of my issues with antifa and similar. The folks they want to fight would like nothing better than an opportunity to get into it with them. It’s kind of what they live for.
I think it's important to see this in context. There's more than one sort of antifa group and more than one way in which they get involved in violence. (There's also non-violent antifa groups, but no one really talks about them in these discussions.) The ones that most get talked about in the media, social and otherwise, are the black bloc types who are the (much less prevalent) equivalent of the right wing action clubs. They are looking for action and want to provoke, and are ready and willing to engage in violence if that seems to be the order of the day.
There's also, though, the antifa types who see themselves as mutual aid groups, who are there to offer medical support and protection to other groups they are in solidarity with. They are not wanting to provoke, and they are willing and ready to go into a violent situation and respond with as much force as necessary to protect the people who have been caught in the violence being brought against them by the aforementioned action clubs and counter protesters, and occasionally from law enforcement when situations start to escalate. They are functioning as shields between the oppositional violence and the peaceful, marginalized folks who are there to protest that use of organized force.
It's really hard to tell the difference between these two groups in typical edited video that has been cut down to the spectacle and stripped of the context. And jerkfaces like Andy Ngo make a living off of providing a stream of videos that work to paint all such encounters as being the first type, when a lot of what is being shown are people of the second type working to defend against the violence brought to them by the action club Ngo is working with.
In the absence of the second type, though, a lot of marginalized people would be on the receiving end of the violence with no one there to aid them, and no guarantee of police protection, since the police are busy protecting property.
2025-10-17 06:15:45
...and to get ahead of any posts about quick concrete in protesters' milkshakes:
There have to be plenty of officers who believe that meme, though, and will act accordingly.
2025-10-16 23:26:01
From NPR: https://www.npr.org/2025/10/10/nx-s1-5565146/white-house-claims-more-than-1-000-rise-in-assaults-on-ice-agents-data-says-otherwise
While the number of assaults on ICE agents have increased, there is no public evidence that they have spiked as dramatically as the federal government has claimed.
An analysis of court records shows about a 25% rise in charges for assault against federal officers through mid-September, compared with the same period a year ago.
I'll also note, for everyone's edification, that the much more modest increase is for charges of assault. I take every one of these charges with a grain of salt. I have colleagues who were involved in peaceful protests who had been charged with resisting arrest just because they tried to keep themselves from falling as several officers attempted to wrestle them to the ground. The officers involved were all using more force than required in an attempt to intimidate. It was ugly, and disproportionate and it was being directed at people who were pointedly non-violent. Some of the protesters were charged with assault because officers were struck by elbows a two or three of them bore down on single protesters. Was it the middle aged black woman's elbow or was it the elbow of one of the other officers? Doesn't matter. If there is a bruise, the person involved is getting a charge filed. A felony charge can be used as leverage to get a plea deal that the DA can use later on to bolster their "tough on crime" pose come election time.
And that's with local agencies who are relatively restrained compared to the ICE bullshit.
Also, while it's not doxxing proper, several of those colleagues have had their names and photos posted online and featured on mobile billboards that have been driven around the campus by right wing activist groups. They hardly have to post a faculty member's home address when the classes they teach and the location of those classes are available to any student enrolled at the university. The university says that all they can do is offer already-available mental health counseling and make the involved faculties' campus profiles available only to the university community at large. The university is afraid that anything more will be seen as an attack on the RW activists freedom of speech and attract more nuisance actors to the campus, creating more danger and a lot of bad PR when the RW media jumps on board.
On the flip side, I've had a former colleague outed by name in a major news outlet for being a pseudonymous alt-right influencer. As far as I can tell that has just boosted his views and gotten him invited to speak at the big conservative activist conventions.
russell - As an aside, this has always been one of my issues with antifa and similar. The folks they want to fight would like nothing better than an opportunity to get into it with them. It’s kind of what they live for.
I think it's important to see this in context. There's more than one sort of antifa group and more than one way in which they get involved in violence. (There's also non-violent antifa groups, but no one really talks about them in these discussions.) The ones that most get talked about in the media, social and otherwise, are the black bloc types who are the (much less prevalent) equivalent of the right wing action clubs. They are looking for action and want to provoke, and are ready and willing to engage in violence if that seems to be the order of the day.
There's also, though, the antifa types who see themselves as mutual aid groups, who are there to offer medical support and protection to other groups they are in solidarity with. They are not wanting to provoke, and they are willing and ready to go into a violent situation and respond with as much force as necessary to protect the people who have been caught in the violence being brought against them by the aforementioned action clubs and counter protesters, and occasionally from law enforcement when situations start to escalate. They are functioning as shields between the oppositional violence and the peaceful, marginalized folks who are there to protest that use of organized force.
It's really hard to tell the difference between these two groups in typical edited video that has been cut down to the spectacle and stripped of the context. And jerkfaces like Andy Ngo make a living off of providing a stream of videos that work to paint all such encounters as being the first type, when a lot of what is being shown are people of the second type working to defend against the violence brought to them by the action club Ngo is working with.
In the absence of the second type, though, a lot of marginalized people would be on the receiving end of the violence with no one there to aid them, and no guarantee of police protection, since the police are busy protecting property.
...and to get ahead of any posts about quick concrete in protesters' milkshakes:
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/07/how-a-dubious-claim-of-cement-milkshakes-in-portland-became-a-right-wing-meme/
There have to be plenty of officers who believe that meme, though, and will act accordingly.
From NPR: https://www.npr.org/2025/10/10/nx-s1-5565146/white-house-claims-more-than-1-000-rise-in-assaults-on-ice-agents-data-says-otherwise
I'll also note, for everyone's edification, that the much more modest increase is for charges of assault. I take every one of these charges with a grain of salt. I have colleagues who were involved in peaceful protests who had been charged with resisting arrest just because they tried to keep themselves from falling as several officers attempted to wrestle them to the ground. The officers involved were all using more force than required in an attempt to intimidate. It was ugly, and disproportionate and it was being directed at people who were pointedly non-violent. Some of the protesters were charged with assault because officers were struck by elbows a two or three of them bore down on single protesters. Was it the middle aged black woman's elbow or was it the elbow of one of the other officers? Doesn't matter. If there is a bruise, the person involved is getting a charge filed. A felony charge can be used as leverage to get a plea deal that the DA can use later on to bolster their "tough on crime" pose come election time.
And that's with local agencies who are relatively restrained compared to the ICE bullshit.
Also, while it's not doxxing proper, several of those colleagues have had their names and photos posted online and featured on mobile billboards that have been driven around the campus by right wing activist groups. They hardly have to post a faculty member's home address when the classes they teach and the location of those classes are available to any student enrolled at the university. The university says that all they can do is offer already-available mental health counseling and make the involved faculties' campus profiles available only to the university community at large. The university is afraid that anything more will be seen as an attack on the RW activists freedom of speech and attract more nuisance actors to the campus, creating more danger and a lot of bad PR when the RW media jumps on board.
On the flip side, I've had a former colleague outed by name in a major news outlet for being a pseudonymous alt-right influencer. As far as I can tell that has just boosted his views and gotten him invited to speak at the big conservative activist conventions.