It seems that they - being more robust - needed more high quality calories than our own ancestors and that the really lean times came after not in the ice age. But to my knowlege the youngest Neanderthal finds are in regions our ancestors had not yet reached (Gibraltar), so us wiping them out seems not to have been the primary reason. Slightly lower birth rates (for whatever reason) seem to be the main cause. Grey squirrel against red squirrel?
Of course my favorite explanation is that the Neanderthals were still at getting their Maxim guns working properly when our ancestors overran them with mediocre but nonetheless functional clubs.
Hartmut, sorry, I dropped in and saw your post, but thought one had been freed. I think we put a textblock on He of the oven made of masonry units, so that may be why, though Russell did post the name twice, so I'm not sure.
It's long been pretty clear that the Neanderthals were every bit as intelligent, and culturally complex, as homo sapiens. Just earlier. And were similar enough to us that interbreeding took place. Most of us have chunks of Neanderthal DNA in our genome.
It's not (that I know of) clear why/how we replaced them. Presumably we had an advantage of some kind. Higher birth rates? Better or more focused disease resistance? More effective aggressive behavior? Something.
I've long since resigned myself to the reality that anything and everything that I have ever written on the Internet is available to someone willing to expend the effort to track it down. Including stuff I have long since forgotten, which I wrote when the Internet was new, and the preserve of a very small number of geeks. I don't like it, but that's the way it is.
I figure I'm still better off than those today who (apparently compulsively) write every detail of pretty much every they do. I expect it will come back to haunt a significant number of them.
In 50 years or so our culture may have adapted to the Internet. We'll make use of its strengths where appropriate. And kids will be taught, about the time they learn to read and write, how to use it safely and responsibly. Until then, about the best we can do is damage limitation.
And for the third time my short post disappeared.
I only answered a question from russell concerning a former poster and whether anyone remembers him (yes) and something food related (no).
No idea what the system sees as problematic there.
About what topics get people's dander up, I'd go to Martin Luther's observation that "Most human affairs come down to depending upon whose ox is gored." The earth being flat is not on the list of most people's oxen, but other topics can end up being more ox-like.
I've encountered ASB scenarios in some of the SF/F I've read, but don't remember such scenarios ever being described as ASBs. Alien Space Bats in Fiction
Nothing in a context suggesting alien space bats.
Time to adjust my meds. :)
Before I began commenting here, I hung out at RedState for a while. Earlier today it occurred to me that maybe alien space bat was over there. Which kind of tracks, maybe.
So I went to RedState to see if they have a search feature. I didn't see one, and I didn't really want to spend any more time there.
So I guess alien space bat guy will remain a mystery. And I promise not to bring it up again, GFTNC.
Pro Bono: I see no problem with discussing religious perspectives, so long as we're not expected to follow arguments from scriptural authority.
"Expected" by who? Surely not by the hosts, than whom there is no higher authority in a blog comment section. Also, to "follow" an argument can mean two different things. I can follow an argument that the earth is flat, for instance, without feeling obliged to follow it up with a refutation.
I called myself "emotionally inert" earlier. What that means is: if a god-botherer citing chapter and verse declared in these pages that I am doomed to hell, I would not be offended, frightened, or otherwise annoyed. If I had a bit of time to kill, I might comment back sarcastically or contemptuously -- but only for my own amusement.
Basically, I can't get worked up about much of anything in a blog comments section. "Yo mama wears army boots" may be ad hominem but I figure sensible people hardly expect me to deny it lest I appear to accept it.
Some people (perhaps the "self-defined conservatives" wonkie speaks of) may be more sensitive than I am, of course.
--TP
and I pulled all of the site's content out the hard way...
I've mentioned that I have wound up as the extended families' archivist, and have thousands of pages of stuff that has been dumped on me over the years. One of my uncles spent years after he retired building a blog site where he posted content about the tiny town in Iowa where he was born and (for a while) raised.
One of the first things on my list of stuff to get safely tucked away in digital form when I decided to be serious about it was that blog content. Quite a bit of what I learned pulling everything out of Obsidian Wings was useful for pulling his stuff out of Blogger. Multiple copies are stored away now.
I think that the diversity--meaning the self-defined conservative voices---lessened because they simply couldn't justify their positions. This is a very smart, well-informed, articulate group of people and the self-defined conservatives found their positions being picked apart, analyzed, scrutinized and rebutted. So they either got nasty or left or moderated. Or redefined "conservative".
I think it is weird but sort of cute that someone has been recording birthdays. Like an odd hobby.
Male, neutered, orange, and about fifteen years old, if anyone is wondering. Birthday unknown.
I've tried searching the blog many times for all possible variations of "alien space bat". No joy.
From back at the time when it looked like the hosting service was going to drop Typepad, and the Typepad export-content function was broken, and I pulled all of the site's content out the hard way...
I still have a flat text file with everything up to that point. Thumbing through on the word alien (case independent), there are numerous mentions of space aliens. Someone flat out states that Moe Lane is a space alien. Someone follows that with, "No, I meant intelligent space aliens." There seems to be agreement that Alien vs Predator is the definitive example of film franchises that have gone on too long. Nothing in a context suggesting alien space bats.
lj, I wondered whether you'd pick up the manipulation v pulling the strings aspect, but I decided not to go there with you given how distressing the whole thing had become. Ditto various other aspects (e.g. sex v gender). Let's put it behind us, and just all (including me) be mindful that going after people in anger is generally uncalled for, and counter-productive.
On the Stasi like text file, I did realise it could look like that, but I also remembered that when I started on here I kept a table of where people said they lived (i.e. what state), so I could ask about or respond to their local weather issues, or political developments (e.g. asking wj or nous about things in California etc). I stopped years ago, but the impulse made me realise that I should definitely not cast the first stone, even if I had wanted to.
A couple of observations. I'm probably a/the fly in the ointment. I'm happy to discuss things, but I am pretty big on examining unexamined assumptions. I'll try and illustrate this with an example that's on me.
GftNC and I had an exchange on manipulate and draw out. However, I went back to the comment and I said in the very same comment What I see (after reflection) was that it was becoming evident to me that it was a loser on the internet pretending to be someone else because they couldn't have a proper conversation with adults and admit they were wrong and that the said loser was pulling your strings.
GftNC could say I was wasn't being honest, cause "pulling strings" conjures up the image of a marionette. But I hope that the full quote shows that I'm making the assumption that she wouldn't have started the conversation if she knew she was just being recruited as a foot soldier in the war on cultural Marxism. But she was right to point that out. Hopefully, we won't have to worry about sockpuppets for a while.
Unfortunately, a lot of arguing on the internet takes running off the other side as winning. While that was true for folks like Alexander, Caesar and Napoleon, not so true now. The whole concept of sealioning springs from this, but it shares a notion with other similar interactions, which is to goad a person taking one side of the argument into blowing up and then taking the moral high ground.
From this, I think that it isn't so much the topic, it is the way the argument is processed. I was looking at the old posts and the big debate was gay marriage, which invited as much feeling back then.
Another thing, I imagine some people were a bit taken aback by Charles' text file of our ages, which seems a bit Stasi-like. In a lot of places, especially if people don't have much of a reason to play nice, there would have been fireworks at the comment giving the age range. 'how the F would you know that?' might have been a response. But I'm pretty pleased that this didn't happen here. I can't speak for others, but the whole thing seemed very Charles-like.
It's also possible that I hallucinated the whole thing
LOL And I'm quite willing to read rational arguments for Trumpism, if any exist.
To quote the Spartans: "if".
How much diversity are you, personally, willing to tolerate?
Anyone who's willing to engage in reasoned, fact-based, and tolerably polite discussion.
I see no problem with discussing religious perspectives, so long as we're not expected to follow arguments from scriptural authority. And I'm quite willing to read rational arguments for Trumpism, if any exist.
russell, please stop taunting me with the alien space bats guy.
I've tried searching the blog many times for all possible variations of "alien space bat". No joy.
If anyone has better Typepad-fu than I do (which is probably everyone) and wants to give it try, I will appreciate it. I think it was quite a while ago, but I'm not sure of a particular time period.
It's also possible that I hallucinated the whole thing.
I'll also note that a random walk through the archives will show that we've had more than a few... interesting characters here over the years.
Anyone besides me remember Brick Over Bill and his recipes for rice and beans? :)
Maybe I'm living in some kind of fantasy ObWi populated by the bizarre flotsam and jetsam of my imagination....
Also, wj - I'm fine with people who refer to their faith-based beliefs as part of why they think what they do - I've done that myself here on a few occasions. But folks coming from that perspective have to respect that many or most folks here may not find that persuasive.
conversations with them tend to devolve into unanswerable arguments from authority. I.e., if "the Bible says" is not part of your epistemology, there isn't really a basis for conversation. It can be kind of a dead end.
Thus my discussion of what constitutes an "authority". I, too, would not be optimistic about a useful conversation with someone whose approach starts and ends with "the Bible [or other scriptures of their choice] says". In the other hand, someone who starts with "I believe that" or "My faith holds that", but then goes on to discuss how that particular tenet has positive impacts for those outside their faith community, or for society at large?** That could be fine.
To take one example, suppose someone starts from"Thou shalt not steal.". Not a whole lot of arguments from people here. But there might be a useful discussion of what, beyond the obvious, constitutes "stealing." Is open pit mining necessarily stealing? How about various stock/bond trading strategies? How about various tax regimes? And, in each case, what's the evidence for how it works out in the real world? In short, it's possible to take a fundamentalist precept and look at it, or at least its impact, objectively.
** And, tiny reality check, I have personal experience of a few such people. No idea how common that view is, but we're not looking at a null set.
russell, please stop taunting me with the alien space bats guy. You've done it before; he was before my time, and I am deeply resentful to have missed him!
Yeah, I can't imagine it working with seriously MAGA types, or religious fundamentalists, essentially because I can't see that either of those groups are concerned with anything that I would call reality. I might be wrong, of course. But, on the definition of "reliable sources", wj, you definitely make an excellent point - that is problematic. All the other flavors of conservative you name here are pretty much fine with me. I just ask that people keep it out of ad hominem territory, probably in both directions.
Yes, I think I agree.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.
On “Plus ça change…”
It seems that they - being more robust - needed more high quality calories than our own ancestors and that the really lean times came after not in the ice age. But to my knowlege the youngest Neanderthal finds are in regions our ancestors had not yet reached (Gibraltar), so us wiping them out seems not to have been the primary reason. Slightly lower birth rates (for whatever reason) seem to be the main cause. Grey squirrel against red squirrel?
Of course my favorite explanation is that the Neanderthals were still at getting their Maxim guns working properly when our ancestors overran them with mediocre but nonetheless functional clubs.
On “An open thread on July 4th”
wj's comment reminds me of Ena Matsuoka, a member of Japanese girl idol group
https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/people/article/3052704/japanese-sex-pest-jailed-stalking-pop-idol-ena-matsuoka-using
A Japanese man has been sentenced to 30 months in prison for stalking and assaulting an up-and-coming pop idol after finding clues to where she lived by enlarging reflections of scenery and landmarks in her eyes in photographs she shared on social media.
"
Hartmut, sorry, I dropped in and saw your post, but thought one had been freed. I think we put a textblock on He of the oven made of masonry units, so that may be why, though Russell did post the name twice, so I'm not sure.
On “Plus ça change…”
It's long been pretty clear that the Neanderthals were every bit as intelligent, and culturally complex, as homo sapiens. Just earlier. And were similar enough to us that interbreeding took place. Most of us have chunks of Neanderthal DNA in our genome.
It's not (that I know of) clear why/how we replaced them. Presumably we had an advantage of some kind. Higher birth rates? Better or more focused disease resistance? More effective aggressive behavior? Something.
On “An open thread on July 4th”
I've long since resigned myself to the reality that anything and everything that I have ever written on the Internet is available to someone willing to expend the effort to track it down. Including stuff I have long since forgotten, which I wrote when the Internet was new, and the preserve of a very small number of geeks. I don't like it, but that's the way it is.
I figure I'm still better off than those today who (apparently compulsively) write every detail of pretty much every they do. I expect it will come back to haunt a significant number of them.
In 50 years or so our culture may have adapted to the Internet. We'll make use of its strengths where appropriate. And kids will be taught, about the time they learn to read and write, how to use it safely and responsibly. Until then, about the best we can do is damage limitation.
"
And for the third time my short post disappeared.
I only answered a question from russell concerning a former poster and whether anyone remembers him (yes) and something food related (no).
No idea what the system sees as problematic there.
"
About what topics get people's dander up, I'd go to Martin Luther's observation that "Most human affairs come down to depending upon whose ox is gored." The earth being flat is not on the list of most people's oxen, but other topics can end up being more ox-like.
"
I've encountered ASB scenarios in some of the SF/F I've read, but don't remember such scenarios ever being described as ASBs.
Alien Space Bats in Fiction
"
Perversely, I feel a sense of loss....
"
Nothing in a context suggesting alien space bats.
Time to adjust my meds. :)
Before I began commenting here, I hung out at RedState for a while. Earlier today it occurred to me that maybe alien space bat was over there. Which kind of tracks, maybe.
So I went to RedState to see if they have a search feature. I didn't see one, and I didn't really want to spend any more time there.
So I guess alien space bat guy will remain a mystery. And I promise not to bring it up again, GFTNC.
"
Pro Bono: I see no problem with discussing religious perspectives, so long as we're not expected to follow arguments from scriptural authority.
"Expected" by who? Surely not by the hosts, than whom there is no higher authority in a blog comment section. Also, to "follow" an argument can mean two different things. I can follow an argument that the earth is flat, for instance, without feeling obliged to follow it up with a refutation.
I called myself "emotionally inert" earlier. What that means is: if a god-botherer citing chapter and verse declared in these pages that I am doomed to hell, I would not be offended, frightened, or otherwise annoyed. If I had a bit of time to kill, I might comment back sarcastically or contemptuously -- but only for my own amusement.
Basically, I can't get worked up about much of anything in a blog comments section. "Yo mama wears army boots" may be ad hominem but I figure sensible people hardly expect me to deny it lest I appear to accept it.
Some people (perhaps the "self-defined conservatives" wonkie speaks of) may be more sensitive than I am, of course.
--TP
"
and I pulled all of the site's content out the hard way...
I've mentioned that I have wound up as the extended families' archivist, and have thousands of pages of stuff that has been dumped on me over the years. One of my uncles spent years after he retired building a blog site where he posted content about the tiny town in Iowa where he was born and (for a while) raised.
One of the first things on my list of stuff to get safely tucked away in digital form when I decided to be serious about it was that blog content. Quite a bit of what I learned pulling everything out of Obsidian Wings was useful for pulling his stuff out of Blogger. Multiple copies are stored away now.
"
I think that the diversity--meaning the self-defined conservative voices---lessened because they simply couldn't justify their positions. This is a very smart, well-informed, articulate group of people and the self-defined conservatives found their positions being picked apart, analyzed, scrutinized and rebutted. So they either got nasty or left or moderated. Or redefined "conservative".
I think it is weird but sort of cute that someone has been recording birthdays. Like an odd hobby.
Male, neutered, orange, and about fifteen years old, if anyone is wondering. Birthday unknown.
"
I've tried searching the blog many times for all possible variations of "alien space bat". No joy.
From back at the time when it looked like the hosting service was going to drop Typepad, and the Typepad export-content function was broken, and I pulled all of the site's content out the hard way...
I still have a flat text file with everything up to that point. Thumbing through on the word alien (case independent), there are numerous mentions of space aliens. Someone flat out states that Moe Lane is a space alien. Someone follows that with, "No, I meant intelligent space aliens." There seems to be agreement that Alien vs Predator is the definitive example of film franchises that have gone on too long. Nothing in a context suggesting alien space bats.
"
lj, I wondered whether you'd pick up the manipulation v pulling the strings aspect, but I decided not to go there with you given how distressing the whole thing had become. Ditto various other aspects (e.g. sex v gender). Let's put it behind us, and just all (including me) be mindful that going after people in anger is generally uncalled for, and counter-productive.
On the Stasi like text file, I did realise it could look like that, but I also remembered that when I started on here I kept a table of where people said they lived (i.e. what state), so I could ask about or respond to their local weather issues, or political developments (e.g. asking wj or nous about things in California etc). I stopped years ago, but the impulse made me realise that I should definitely not cast the first stone, even if I had wanted to.
"
Well, since I've collected most everyone else's birthdate or approximate age, my birthdate is 11/14/47.
"
A couple of observations. I'm probably a/the fly in the ointment. I'm happy to discuss things, but I am pretty big on examining unexamined assumptions. I'll try and illustrate this with an example that's on me.
GftNC and I had an exchange on manipulate and draw out. However, I went back to the comment and I said in the very same comment
What I see (after reflection) was that it was becoming evident to me that it was a loser on the internet pretending to be someone else because they couldn't have a proper conversation with adults and admit they were wrong and that the said loser was pulling your strings.
GftNC could say I was wasn't being honest, cause "pulling strings" conjures up the image of a marionette. But I hope that the full quote shows that I'm making the assumption that she wouldn't have started the conversation if she knew she was just being recruited as a foot soldier in the war on cultural Marxism. But she was right to point that out. Hopefully, we won't have to worry about sockpuppets for a while.
Unfortunately, a lot of arguing on the internet takes running off the other side as winning. While that was true for folks like Alexander, Caesar and Napoleon, not so true now. The whole concept of sealioning springs from this, but it shares a notion with other similar interactions, which is to goad a person taking one side of the argument into blowing up and then taking the moral high ground.
From this, I think that it isn't so much the topic, it is the way the argument is processed. I was looking at the old posts and the big debate was gay marriage, which invited as much feeling back then.
Another thing, I imagine some people were a bit taken aback by Charles' text file of our ages, which seems a bit Stasi-like. In a lot of places, especially if people don't have much of a reason to play nice, there would have been fireworks at the comment giving the age range. 'how the F would you know that?' might have been a response. But I'm pretty pleased that this didn't happen here. I can't speak for others, but the whole thing seemed very Charles-like.
"
It's also possible that I hallucinated the whole thing.
Nah. More likely the alien space bats purged it.
"
I just posted twice but after refreshing the post disappeared each time .
"
It's also possible that I hallucinated the whole thing
LOL
And I'm quite willing to read rational arguments for Trumpism, if any exist.
To quote the Spartans: "if".
"
How much diversity are you, personally, willing to tolerate?
Anyone who's willing to engage in reasoned, fact-based, and tolerably polite discussion.
I see no problem with discussing religious perspectives, so long as we're not expected to follow arguments from scriptural authority. And I'm quite willing to read rational arguments for Trumpism, if any exist.
"
russell, please stop taunting me with the alien space bats guy.
I've tried searching the blog many times for all possible variations of "alien space bat". No joy.
If anyone has better Typepad-fu than I do (which is probably everyone) and wants to give it try, I will appreciate it. I think it was quite a while ago, but I'm not sure of a particular time period.
It's also possible that I hallucinated the whole thing.
I'll also note that a random walk through the archives will show that we've had more than a few... interesting characters here over the years.
Anyone besides me remember Brick Over Bill and his recipes for rice and beans? :)
Maybe I'm living in some kind of fantasy ObWi populated by the bizarre flotsam and jetsam of my imagination....
Also, wj - I'm fine with people who refer to their faith-based beliefs as part of why they think what they do - I've done that myself here on a few occasions. But folks coming from that perspective have to respect that many or most folks here may not find that persuasive.
"
conversations with them tend to devolve into unanswerable arguments from authority. I.e., if "the Bible says" is not part of your epistemology, there isn't really a basis for conversation. It can be kind of a dead end.
Thus my discussion of what constitutes an "authority". I, too, would not be optimistic about a useful conversation with someone whose approach starts and ends with "the Bible [or other scriptures of their choice] says". In the other hand, someone who starts with "I believe that" or "My faith holds that", but then goes on to discuss how that particular tenet has positive impacts for those outside their faith community, or for society at large?** That could be fine.
To take one example, suppose someone starts from"Thou shalt not steal.". Not a whole lot of arguments from people here. But there might be a useful discussion of what, beyond the obvious, constitutes "stealing." Is open pit mining necessarily stealing? How about various stock/bond trading strategies? How about various tax regimes? And, in each case, what's the evidence for how it works out in the real world? In short, it's possible to take a fundamentalist precept and look at it, or at least its impact, objectively.
** And, tiny reality check, I have personal experience of a few such people. No idea how common that view is, but we're not looking at a null set.
"
russell, please stop taunting me with the alien space bats guy. You've done it before; he was before my time, and I am deeply resentful to have missed him!
"
Yeah, I can't imagine it working with seriously MAGA types, or religious fundamentalists, essentially because I can't see that either of those groups are concerned with anything that I would call reality. I might be wrong, of course. But, on the definition of "reliable sources", wj, you definitely make an excellent point - that is problematic.
All the other flavors of conservative you name here are pretty much fine with me. I just ask that people keep it out of ad hominem territory, probably in both directions.
Yes, I think I agree.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.