This is a mad Vance trope.
I don't listen to Vance and care very little about anything he has to say. Here's hoping that in 2028, there are better candidates for president than Vance and the possible Republican and Democratic candidates I know about. PA recently did tens of millions of pounds worth of damage when they broke into an RAF base and sprayed gallons of paint on planes and into their engines.
They had to work hard to overcome the two-tier policing.
things they posted on X or other social media platforms.
Oh, and on social media platforms, see "going through people's devices to see if they have ever badmouthed Trump or his government".
And Lucy Connolly was imprisoned, after the murder of the three little girls in Southport by a British citizen, for tweeting (within hours of the attack) on X: “Mass deportation now, set fire to all the f***ing hotels full of the bastards for all I care? If that makes me racist, so be it.”
The murder of three girls at a Taylor Swift-themed dance class in Southport by Axel Rudakubana sparked widespread rioting in town centres and outside migrant hotels, following false claims that the attacker was a Muslim small boat migrant."
Yup, we don't have the equivalent of the (currently rather hypothetical) first amendment, or untrammelled freedom of speech, but I know in which country I'd feel safer criticising the government. Or being a lawyer and representing clients against the government. Or against the POTUS. Etc etc etc.
I don't understand why one wouldn't be helpful to anyone one works with, or anyone at all. Just, why not?
During my time as a manager, our center (~100 people) was assembled from various parts of the old Bell System, and charged with delivering the legally required changes to the local telcos' networks. Half of that staff came from a part of AT&T where the working philosophy was, "You advance your career over the bodies of your colleagues." Most of the meetings I went to was for the purpose of keeping those *ssholes from stabbing us in the back.
I could understand it somewhat. Their part of AT&T had a zillion different levels and salary was closely tied to level. If you didn't get one of the two promotions from "junior assistant flunky" to "assistant flunky" in your organization this year, you didn't get a raise. I came from Bell Labs where almost everyone not in an administrative position was a "member of technical staff". Salaries for MTS covered a spread of perhaps 8x: an MTS with 35 years of experience and demonstrated brilliance might make 8x what a starting MTS made. More than 8x in special cases, like winning a Nobel prize :^)
You're right. I was thinking about free speech problems in the UK.
This is a mad Vance trope. He said it to object to the fact that "pro-life" demonstrators were not being permitted to protest within some hundreds of feet of abortion clinics, which was intimidating women going in. Then he extended it to people "silently praying" within the perimeter (possibly questionable, but needs to be seen in the context).
The "hundreds of people being arrested for peacefully protesting" are demonstrating in reaction to a recent decision of the government to proscribe an organisation called "Palestine Action", which explicitly advocates "direct criminal action tactics to halt the sale and export of military equipment to Israel". PA recently did tens of millions of pounds worth of damage when they broke into an RAF base and sprayed gallons of paint on planes and into their engines. After that they were defined as a terrorist organisation, and proscribed, which made protesting in their support illegal under the Terrorism Act. I'm not crazy about any of this, particularly the arrest of the protesters, but I don't think that by any definition it amounts to much of a free speech problem compared to a regime which is going through people's devices to see if they have ever badmouthed Trump or his government, and then refusing them entry to the US, or if there already deporting them.
On the books banned in the school districts, incidentally, it is estimated that 64% of them are by women, and disproportionately by women of colour.
Free speech problems, eh? Didn't we have a thread recently called motes and logs?
There are activists on the left bringing books into schools that are, at best, not age-appropriate or shouldn't be in schools at all.
Gotta cite? Either way, "activists" don't sound like people weilding sanctioned government power.
Is there a playbook for this, because it’s the same tired thing I’ve seen too many times?
There are activists on the left bringing books into schools that are, at best, not age-appropriate or shouldn't be in schools at all. Then there are the idiots on the right who want to ban any book that slightly offends them.
ICE is currently arresting tens of thousands of people a month. Perhaps they are all extraordinary.
You're right. I was thinking about free speech problems in the UK.
The ICE is arresting and deporting far too many low-priority illegal immigrants. The UK is arresting and deporting far too few high-priority ones. Trump promised to deport criminals. Then set quotas so high that ICE and other LE started grabbing anyone they could lay their hands on.
Hopefully, future presidents will be averse to doing anything that can be called Trump-like.
Removing books from school libraries isn't the same as banning them.
It is the same as banning them from the school-district libraries in question, which is what GftNC’s statement was limited to. But build your straw man and make your irrelevant point.
Is there a playbook for this, because it’s the same tired thing I’ve seen too many times?
Here, as far as I know, hundreds of ordinary people are not being arrested
"ordinary" is carrying a hell of a lot of water in this phrase.
ICE is currently arresting tens of thousands of people a month. Perhaps they are all extraordinary.
Worried though we are by much of it, I can't think of a single thing which compares in any way with what is happening in the States.
From here, democracy in the UK isn't looking so great either. Here, as far as I know, hundreds of ordinary people are not being arrested, and some are spending time in prison for participating in peaceful protests or for things they posted on X or other social media platforms. Charles, your LLMs are (not for the first time) letting you down badly.
The LLMs often seem to lean left. Or perhaps you have been paying too much attention to e.g Vance and co.
My sentiment is more of "Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right of me..." I intensely dislike the public faces of both the left and the right in the US. I see that in at least 65 US school districts, among the banned books is The Handmaid's Tale.
Removing books from school libraries isn't the same as banning them. They're still available for anyone who wants them. They may even benefit from the Streisand effect. Your "facetiousness" does nothing but parrot the idiotic, ignorant and dangerous talking points of the people who are driving your country's democracy to its destruction.
My "facetiousness" is based on what I'm hearing from UK citizens.
The LLM AI stuff is a great tool. I have friends who have used it for stuff like designing the governing board structure for a small-ish non-profit, and for planning a somewhat complex trip to Scandinavia (two single women, less than unlimited budget, various health and mobility issues).
So, a really good hammer for some kinds of nails.
It's also perhaps the pre-eminent example of GIGO.
For sifting through the universe of basic factual information, it's tres handy. Need to find a useful factual result in the context of lots of different constraints? It's outstanding.
For anything involving matters of moral or ethical value - anything that involves answering the question "is this good?" - I'll stick with good old human reasoning and intuition.
Horses for courses, as they say.
Charles, your LLMs are (not for the first time) letting you down badly. Or perhaps you have been paying too much attention to e.g Vance and co.
I see that in at least 65 US school districts, among the banned books is The Handmaid's Tale. Your Health Secretary is an anti-vaxxer and general science denier. People who criticise the POTUS are the targets of vindictive legal intimidation. Attempts are being made (so far successfully) to skew the electoral system to keep the current party in power, and armed forces are being deployed in US cities to intimidate the population. How would you describe what is happening in your country - are you indeed (as russell reminds you suggested before the inauguration) pretty much muddling through?
I have never denied that in the UK we have many problems (post-Brexit, the economy, Reform). Worried though we are by much of it, I can't think of a single thing which compares in any way with what is happening in the States. Your "facetiousness" does nothing but parrot the idiotic, ignorant and dangerous talking points of the people who are driving your country's democracy to its destruction.
It was a youtube video, so I can't find it, but it discussed how a growing number of people are choosing to locate themselves in Dubai and how it is a different way of thinking about citizenship, nationality and identity.
The nice part of my job was that it was in the position to tell the owners of the batch jobs, i.e. the application programmers, to actually fix the damn things, so the ops folks didn't have to keep dealing with problems. Ah, the power!
Dubai is popular, and Türkiye is possible, though a stretch.
Note, however, that Dubai (like all of the parts of the U.A.E.) is an absolute monarchy. Whereas Turkiye is merely a wannabe autocracy.
I don't think I want to live in an Islamic country...
Indonesia? Malaysia? I would consider Krygyzstan but I'd give a pass on Kazakhstan.
Dubai is popular, and Türkiye is possible, though a stretch.
I feel like you are thinking of countries in the neighborhood of Israel...
One of my first contract jobs was third shift application support in the data center at ATT. Some COBOL batch jobs blew up each night, mostly data errors or JCL typos.
The operations folks loved that I would tell them what the problem/fix was, so they had a better idea of what to tell the next support person. When it was quiet I would sit in the op center and help, with them telling me what to do I loved that job
I'm assuming this is a joke, Charles. If not, do expound.
I was being a bit facetious. However, the US isn't the only Western country with numerous political and social problems. Other countries, including the UK, have their own sets of often overlapping problems.
If any readers here need some help when you emigrate to England, let me know.
You'd be amazed to hear how often I've thought just that! I don't think I want to live in an Islamic country...
I'm assuming this is a joke, Charles. If not, do expound.
What russell said.
Plus, some people are sufficiently insecure that they are afraid not to flaunt their nominal superiority (or at least superior position) by being obnoxious to everybody else. Remind you of any current Presidents?
If you care to offer it, CharlesWT, I am agog to hear your opinion of the MAGAt-controlled state of Texas. As regards redistricting, mostly. But bible-thumping, too.
--TP
If any readers here need some help when you emigrate to England, let me know.
LOL.
Emigrating would mean moving, which would mean packing up all of our stuff. I'm just lazy enough to make that a non-starter. Plus, when I retired I finally got my home studio set up just the way I like it.
Whether due to inertia, some remaining morsel of loyalty to the country of my birth, or just plain old contrariness and stupidity, it looks like I'm riding this crazy roller coaster to the end.
But thank you for your very kind offer!
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.
On “The Schadenfreude Express”
This is a mad Vance trope.
I don't listen to Vance and care very little about anything he has to say. Here's hoping that in 2028, there are better candidates for president than Vance and the possible Republican and Democratic candidates I know about.
PA recently did tens of millions of pounds worth of damage when they broke into an RAF base and sprayed gallons of paint on planes and into their engines.
They had to work hard to overcome the two-tier policing.
"
things they posted on X or other social media platforms.
Oh, and on social media platforms, see "going through people's devices to see if they have ever badmouthed Trump or his government".
And Lucy Connolly was imprisoned, after the murder of the three little girls in Southport by a British citizen, for tweeting (within hours of the attack) on X:
“Mass deportation now, set fire to all the f***ing hotels full of the bastards for all I care? If that makes me racist, so be it.”
The murder of three girls at a Taylor Swift-themed dance class in Southport by Axel Rudakubana sparked widespread rioting in town centres and outside migrant hotels, following false claims that the attacker was a Muslim small boat migrant."
Yup, we don't have the equivalent of the (currently rather hypothetical) first amendment, or untrammelled freedom of speech, but I know in which country I'd feel safer criticising the government. Or being a lawyer and representing clients against the government. Or against the POTUS. Etc etc etc.
On “David Brooks in Laodicea”
I don't understand why one wouldn't be helpful to anyone one works with, or anyone at all. Just, why not?
During my time as a manager, our center (~100 people) was assembled from various parts of the old Bell System, and charged with delivering the legally required changes to the local telcos' networks. Half of that staff came from a part of AT&T where the working philosophy was, "You advance your career over the bodies of your colleagues." Most of the meetings I went to was for the purpose of keeping those *ssholes from stabbing us in the back.
I could understand it somewhat. Their part of AT&T had a zillion different levels and salary was closely tied to level. If you didn't get one of the two promotions from "junior assistant flunky" to "assistant flunky" in your organization this year, you didn't get a raise. I came from Bell Labs where almost everyone not in an administrative position was a "member of technical staff". Salaries for MTS covered a spread of perhaps 8x: an MTS with 35 years of experience and demonstrated brilliance might make 8x what a starting MTS made. More than 8x in special cases, like winning a Nobel prize :^)
On “The Schadenfreude Express”
You're right. I was thinking about free speech problems in the UK.
This is a mad Vance trope. He said it to object to the fact that "pro-life" demonstrators were not being permitted to protest within some hundreds of feet of abortion clinics, which was intimidating women going in. Then he extended it to people "silently praying" within the perimeter (possibly questionable, but needs to be seen in the context).
The "hundreds of people being arrested for peacefully protesting" are demonstrating in reaction to a recent decision of the government to proscribe an organisation called "Palestine Action", which explicitly advocates "direct criminal action tactics to halt the sale and export of military equipment to Israel". PA recently did tens of millions of pounds worth of damage when they broke into an RAF base and sprayed gallons of paint on planes and into their engines. After that they were defined as a terrorist organisation, and proscribed, which made protesting in their support illegal under the Terrorism Act. I'm not crazy about any of this, particularly the arrest of the protesters, but I don't think that by any definition it amounts to much of a free speech problem compared to a regime which is going through people's devices to see if they have ever badmouthed Trump or his government, and then refusing them entry to the US, or if there already deporting them.
On the books banned in the school districts, incidentally, it is estimated that 64% of them are by women, and disproportionately by women of colour.
Free speech problems, eh? Didn't we have a thread recently called motes and logs?
"
There are activists on the left bringing books into schools that are, at best, not age-appropriate or shouldn't be in schools at all.
Gotta cite? Either way, "activists" don't sound like people weilding sanctioned government power.
"
Is there a playbook for this, because it’s the same tired thing I’ve seen too many times?
There are activists on the left bringing books into schools that are, at best, not age-appropriate or shouldn't be in schools at all. Then there are the idiots on the right who want to ban any book that slightly offends them.
"
ICE is currently arresting tens of thousands of people a month. Perhaps they are all extraordinary.
You're right. I was thinking about free speech problems in the UK.
The ICE is arresting and deporting far too many low-priority illegal immigrants. The UK is arresting and deporting far too few high-priority ones. Trump promised to deport criminals. Then set quotas so high that ICE and other LE started grabbing anyone they could lay their hands on.
Hopefully, future presidents will be averse to doing anything that can be called Trump-like.
"
Removing books from school libraries isn't the same as banning them.
It is the same as banning them from the school-district libraries in question, which is what GftNC’s statement was limited to. But build your straw man and make your irrelevant point.
Is there a playbook for this, because it’s the same tired thing I’ve seen too many times?
"
Here, as far as I know, hundreds of ordinary people are not being arrested
"ordinary" is carrying a hell of a lot of water in this phrase.
ICE is currently arresting tens of thousands of people a month. Perhaps they are all extraordinary.
"
Worried though we are by much of it, I can't think of a single thing which compares in any way with what is happening in the States.
From here, democracy in the UK isn't looking so great either. Here, as far as I know, hundreds of ordinary people are not being arrested, and some are spending time in prison for participating in peaceful protests or for things they posted on X or other social media platforms.
Charles, your LLMs are (not for the first time) letting you down badly.
The LLMs often seem to lean left.
Or perhaps you have been paying too much attention to e.g Vance and co.
My sentiment is more of "Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right of me..." I intensely dislike the public faces of both the left and the right in the US.
I see that in at least 65 US school districts, among the banned books is The Handmaid's Tale.
Removing books from school libraries isn't the same as banning them. They're still available for anyone who wants them. They may even benefit from the Streisand effect.
Your "facetiousness" does nothing but parrot the idiotic, ignorant and dangerous talking points of the people who are driving your country's democracy to its destruction.
My "facetiousness" is based on what I'm hearing from UK citizens.
"
The LLM AI stuff is a great tool. I have friends who have used it for stuff like designing the governing board structure for a small-ish non-profit, and for planning a somewhat complex trip to Scandinavia (two single women, less than unlimited budget, various health and mobility issues).
So, a really good hammer for some kinds of nails.
It's also perhaps the pre-eminent example of GIGO.
For sifting through the universe of basic factual information, it's tres handy. Need to find a useful factual result in the context of lots of different constraints? It's outstanding.
For anything involving matters of moral or ethical value - anything that involves answering the question "is this good?" - I'll stick with good old human reasoning and intuition.
Horses for courses, as they say.
"
Charles, your LLMs are (not for the first time) letting you down badly. Or perhaps you have been paying too much attention to e.g Vance and co.
I see that in at least 65 US school districts, among the banned books is The Handmaid's Tale. Your Health Secretary is an anti-vaxxer and general science denier. People who criticise the POTUS are the targets of vindictive legal intimidation. Attempts are being made (so far successfully) to skew the electoral system to keep the current party in power, and armed forces are being deployed in US cities to intimidate the population. How would you describe what is happening in your country - are you indeed (as russell reminds you suggested before the inauguration) pretty much muddling through?
I have never denied that in the UK we have many problems (post-Brexit, the economy, Reform). Worried though we are by much of it, I can't think of a single thing which compares in any way with what is happening in the States. Your "facetiousness" does nothing but parrot the idiotic, ignorant and dangerous talking points of the people who are driving your country's democracy to its destruction.
"
It was a youtube video, so I can't find it, but it discussed how a growing number of people are choosing to locate themselves in Dubai and how it is a different way of thinking about citizenship, nationality and identity.
On “David Brooks in Laodicea”
The nice part of my job was that it was in the position to tell the owners of the batch jobs, i.e. the application programmers, to actually fix the damn things, so the ops folks didn't have to keep dealing with problems. Ah, the power!
On “The Schadenfreude Express”
Dubai is popular, and Türkiye is possible, though a stretch.
Note, however, that Dubai (like all of the parts of the U.A.E.) is an absolute monarchy. Whereas Turkiye is merely a wannabe autocracy.
"
I feel like you are thinking of countries in the neighborhood of Israel...
I was being facetious about the UK's growing Islamic immigrant population.
"
I don't think I want to live in an Islamic country...
Indonesia? Malaysia? I would consider Krygyzstan but I'd give a pass on Kazakhstan.
Dubai is popular, and Türkiye is possible, though a stretch.
I feel like you are thinking of countries in the neighborhood of Israel...
On “David Brooks in Laodicea”
One of my first contract jobs was third shift application support in the data center at ATT. Some COBOL batch jobs blew up each night, mostly data errors or JCL typos.
The operations folks loved that I would tell them what the problem/fix was, so they had a better idea of what to tell the next support person. When it was quiet I would sit in the op center and help, with them telling me what to do I loved that job
On “The Schadenfreude Express”
"we'll muddle through"
"
I'm assuming this is a joke, Charles. If not, do expound.
I was being a bit facetious. However, the US isn't the only Western country with numerous political and social problems. Other countries, including the UK, have their own sets of often overlapping problems.
"
If any readers here need some help when you emigrate to England, let me know.
You'd be amazed to hear how often I've thought just that!
I don't think I want to live in an Islamic country...
I'm assuming this is a joke, Charles. If not, do expound.
On “David Brooks in Laodicea”
What russell said.
Plus, some people are sufficiently insecure that they are afraid not to flaunt their nominal superiority (or at least superior position) by being obnoxious to everybody else. Remind you of any current Presidents?
On “The Schadenfreude Express”
If you care to offer it, CharlesWT, I am agog to hear your opinion of the MAGAt-controlled state of Texas. As regards redistricting, mostly. But bible-thumping, too.
--TP
"
If any readers here need some help when you emigrate to England, let me know.
I don't think I want to live in an Islamic country...
"
If any readers here need some help when you emigrate to England, let me know.
LOL.
Emigrating would mean moving, which would mean packing up all of our stuff. I'm just lazy enough to make that a non-starter. Plus, when I retired I finally got my home studio set up just the way I like it.
Whether due to inertia, some remaining morsel of loyalty to the country of my birth, or just plain old contrariness and stupidity, it looks like I'm riding this crazy roller coaster to the end.
But thank you for your very kind offer!
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.