3 links seems too few, 5 seems like a better compromise between overly strict and being exposed to spam.
14 days is probably too short - some threads seem to want to go on longer. 21? A month? But longer than a month seems unnecessary - usually if a thread goes on that long it's because it's wandered off onto a different topic that probably deserves its own post.
Don't know what I think about the subscriber thing. What does it give you that you don't get by just walking up to the site? Not having to re-enter name and password each time would be handy, but not sure if that alone is worth the extra fuss.
My biggest ask would be to make "Oldest" the default sort order. I (personally) find it confusing to go bottom-up to follow the chronological sequence of posts. But others may prefer the current default.
As always, thank you all for keeping this place alive!
I'd be fine with boosting the link limit to something like 5. 10 definitely seems excessive -- if you have a burning need to share more, putting in multiple comments doesn't seem that much of a burden.
As for closing comments, I incline to something like 21 days. Anything over a month is just way too long. But 14 is a bit short.
A small complaint about the current comment plugin... When I post a comment, it appears at the top of the comment list, but any comments that have been submitted since I loaded the page and the time my comment is posted do not appear. I have to refresh the page in order to see them.
1) My opinion is that three links are okay, more are not. Something with more than three links generally deserves to be a top-level post with its own discussion, not a comment.
2) 14 days seems too short. 30? I believe that long open periods don't stimulate additional discussion because very late comments are almost invisible. The post has long-since scrolled off the front page, and the comment will quickly scroll off the recent-comments list.
3) The most useful feature is probably not having to type your name or e-mail each time, with possible mistyped e-mail address. Avoiding the wrong address benefits people who use an address registered at Gravatar.com. There are a handful of people on the internet who actually recognize my stupid picture of a transistor as a sort-of credential. That feature doesn't benefit me personally; I have code running in my browser that auto-fills the name and e-mail fields at the few sites where I comment regularly.
Someone should write a post about the pros and cons of concealing your identity.
I maintain a piece of code at another site that provides a comment-centric view of what's going on. One of the features is a paged, time-ordered list of all the comments associated with a particular name, either for a single post, or across all posts. While I am seldom interested in looking at a history of my own comments, it is occasionally useful to look at part of the history of a specific user's comments. Eg, if I know GftNC made a comment I've been thinking about, but I don't remember exactly which post it was attached to.
Thank you lj - since bc's going into spam with 3 seems to show that ATM only 2 is safe, perhaps a limit of 6, which means 5 would be safe? That's my vote.
On duration, how about 21 days or 28?
On subscribers, I can't really see the advantage (although being able to see one's past comments could be useful). On editing one's profile, would that be like when I changed to GftNC from the full version for weird Typepad cause? Perhaps not necessary here?
Upvote/downvote: IMO totally unnecessary, and an unwelcome development from what is our normal way of dealing with each other.
The limit is set at 3, but it is possible to change it. Boosting it up to 10 is possible, but the reason it is not just open is that it is an easy way to try and identify spam
1 vote for longer than 14 days, any idea how much longer? You don't want it open forever because then spammers drop comments in (and my anal retentive self gets really angry when I read something and go thru the comments and find one of thos f**king spam posts there)
About information 'in the wild', some people prefer not to sign up for things. I'm not going to distribute anyone else's info, and I try to be careful, but as soon as you are making it so your commenting history can be pulled up by you, something could happen to make them available more widely. I'm not positive how much information can be seen by others, and I'm not going to just open everything up for anyone to sign up, but if people don't want to subscribe (or don't know what it means and don't do it), I don't want to spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to add features for subscribers.
With the commenting plugin, there is a system for up/down voting comments. I was planning on removing that, but it is like an appendix or tonsils, where you don't mess with it unless it is causing problems.
1. I'm amazed that bc got sent to spam with 3 links. I don't even think 10 is too many.
2. IMO 14 days may be too short. I never counted, but my impression is that some of our best threads at the old site went on for longer than that.
3. I'm not sure what this means, unless the sentence on Limited Capabilities means "Only a user with the subscriber role can generally:", although frankly I'm not sure what it all means even then! How would any of our information be "in the wild" anyway? Does it mean that all subscribers would be able to see each other's contact details etc? Don't underestimate quite how clueless some of us ancient non-tech types are!
Hi all, just a quick bts note. Nous is right, editing a comment gets it put in the spam bucket. There was also a comment from bc there which I have pulled out and posted, it was blocked because it had 3 links.
I'm making a separate post to get opinions on some things on the blog so as not to disrupt this discussion. Thanks!
There again - editing your already posted comment may end up getting that comment marked as potential spam, so we may have extra motivation not to abuse the edits.
If I'd known russell were responding on the doxxing thing and covering the same points I was making, I'd have saved the typing and the risk of further piling on bc.
Also, I just noticed that we can now edit our comments after posting them. Let us try our best to use these powers only for good.
Thank you for your thoughtful response! I'll try to reply briefly.
I think you are correct as regards the law. The severity of the offense depends on whether someone came through a federal entry point vs. just walking across the border somewhere, and also whether someone is trying to re-enter illegally after having been deported.
Thank you for the clarification and correction, I appreciate it.
First, we are on the same page as regards people with criminal histories or demonstrable gang affiliation. I would except folks whose "criminal history" is a moving violation, but certainly crimes against persons or property are legitimate grounds for deportation or refusal of entry.
I don't actually prefer the folks who are here without legal status to the 5 million waiting in line. If I understand the estimates of the size of the "no legal status" numbers, they actually include many of those 5 million - people waiting for an asylum ruling, people here under TPS, basically anyone who has not yet been granted permanent legal residency.
For folks who did straight-up sneak in or overstay their visa - people who are *not* in the pipeline - it's legitimate to deport them, or at least require them to justify their presence here on some legitimate basis (fear of being killed if they return, frex). But I also think we need to be realistic about what we can do without turning the country into a police state. Reagan offered amnesty, we've since had Dreamers, those are both programs intended to deal with the situation humanely and realistically. Don't know if they are appropriate to the current situation.
I personally would be fine with defining a structured path to residency for folks who have been here for some time - 5 years? pick a number - and who have no criminal record. Especially folks who are in families of mixed immigration status - right now we are deporting people who have kids here, and who have been here for years and years. That doesn't seem right, to me.
I'm curious to understand your point about the folks "waiting in line" a little more clearly. Are they "waiting in line" here in this country, i.e., their status is in process but not yet granted? Are they waiting in some other country for a request to immigrate to be granted? I want to understand how the presence of an undocumented person here harms them, or is unfair to them in some tangible way.
Purely from a practical point of view, the focus should be on people who are here with no legal status and who are making trouble. Criminals, gang members. And I agree that the DHS numbers are BS. My understanding, based on cites of ICE's own statistics, is that 80% of the people being held in the Burlington facility near me have no criminal record.
Lastly, I agree that if ICE folks didn't wear masks, they would be at risk of being doxed, and that there is potential for harm there. I would counter that *if they weren't acting as they are acting*, that risk would be significantly reduced. Cops, FBI, etc. generally don't find it necessary to wear masks. ICE's own behavior - their violence and total disregard for due process - is what creates, or at least exacerbates, that risk. They are lawless.
I agree that it's a hard problem, and that there is no perfect solution. But what we are doing right now is nuts. Not "nuts" as in "silly and amusing", but "nuts" as in harmful and destructive, not just to immigrants, but to all of us.
Due process applies to everyone, or else we are all at risk of losing it.
Tony P. - I’d like to know more about this “doxing”. I do not trust Kristi Noem’s statements about it any more than I trust her DHS 70% statistic. Let’s hear about a few actual cases.
Not meaning to come in here and force bc to engage and defend this while outnumbered. I do think it is important to note, though, that this particular scenario does not start with people on the left being upset that the Trump administration is enforcing the immigration laws and respond by doxxing ICE agents wholesale.
It starts with ICE being given arbitrary quotas and being sent out to grab people based on language and ethnicity, and detaining and deporting people without due process.
And even with that, the few people who have actually been doxxed (as opposed to those who are afraid of being doxxed - not for enforcing the law, but for being violent while pursuing these reprehensible tactics) only ended up getting doxxed because they were the ones caught being especially, shockingly violent on video while engaging in these reprehensible tactics.
Should the public's response here be to say that all ICE agents should be allowed to wear masks so they need not fear being identified, or should it be to say that ICE needs to stop these show raids and use their enforcement power only to go after the actual criminals in a way that does not violate their right to due process? And if we protest it should be both, which of the sides of that choice should be the one we give priority to?
Pro Bono - What we are doing to the planet really matters. What the US is doing matters a lot, because why should poorer countries restrain themselves if the US won’t.
There is that, and also the data suggests that the top 1% of the world are responsible for 2/3 of the warming measured since 1990, and we have over 900 billionaires in our country. China is next closest with 516, and only 3 other nation states have more than 100.
But then here is another shocker - to be in the top 1% worldwide, you need only to make $60,000 a year*, so I'd guess that most of us writing here are in that 1%.
*If we are talking income rather than wealth. Wealth is probably a better measure, but it's also a harder measure to come by.
Note that you can actually look up the Antifa group doing this on the web and see the actual posters they were distributing. I'm not going to link to that, for obvious reasons. But I take that as verification of what Noem is saying.
Arrest of a Santa Monica man for doxxing an ICE attorney:
No question that climate change is criticality important. What it is not is an issue which will move votes. At this point, political campaigns simply cannot be about educating voters about things that the ought to care about. It has to be about getting them in side for the next election.
God willing, we will get back to a place where we can focus on educating voters. Rather than having to focus on saving the country. But we aren't there now.
One issue which may not be a vote-winner but remains vitally important is climate change.
Atmospheric carbon dioxide levels are surging. The climate is warming. And the US president lectures the UN that the whole thing is a hoax, on the basis of exactly zero scientific understanding. He simple says what he and his voters want to believe. Perversely, he is going out of his way to increase emissions.
What we are doing to the planet really matters. What the US is doing matters a lot, because why should poorer countries restrain themselves if the US won't. It's horrible that the dangers of fascism are so acute that the threat to the climate is often not close to the forefront of our concerns.
if one genuinely wanted to attack the problem one would go after the employers, who have much more to lose than the illegal immigrants.
Fact is, nobody has done it. It's now peculiar to Trunp & Co., so it's not just about Trump being a big empliyer of illehals.
The law has been in place forever. But when I.C.E. (or its predecessors) make a raid on a workplace, somehow the employer never faces legal consequences. Even in cases where the employees really are illegally here (and not merely of the "wrong" racial or ethnic group).
I don't claim to know very much about illegal immigration to the USA, but it seems to me that if one genuinely wanted to attack the problem one would go after the employers, who have much more to lose than the illegal immigrants.
I'm going to guess that Trump hasn't done that. Tell me if I'm wrong.
bc: Doxing produced masks, which engender fear and are then criticized as fascist.
I'd like to know more about this "doxing". I do not trust Kristi Noem's statements about it any more than I trust her DHS 70% statistic. Let's hear about a few actual cases.
I am quite prepared to believe that there have been instances of people being publicly identified as ICE "agents", and I can easily believe those people were annoyed and embarrassed. But what else happened?
I appreciate the numbers view, and I agree that our country can accept a significant number of (legal) immigrants. How many is a policy decision and best made by Congress rather than having that decision made de facto by illegal immigrants.
To be clear, I am in favor of immigration and I am sympathetic to anyone trying to improve their life. I worked professionally in the immigration area years ago (pre-ICE). I too see the very real fear that is out there now. I saw that fear in downtown LA during the Reagan years around the time of amnesty and see it again today amongst the immigrant population when I visit the Pasadena area for work.
As for how this is being handled now, I agree with you to a significant degree. Depending on who you listen to, it either is or is not focusing on those we would all agree should be deported (criminal record, pending criminal charges, gang members, etc.). DHS says 70%. Other reports are much, much less. I'm strongly in favor of deporting anyone who entered without inspection with a conviction or criminal charges pending or gang association. I also think the resistance isn't helping calm things down and that to me is by design. Doxing produced masks, which engender fear and are then criticized as fascist. And on it goes.
As for the rest of those here without papers, how do you prefer those to the 5 million or so waiting in line? There are IMO far more who entered illegally already in the country. I think the numbers are underrepresented. See this MIT-Yale study before the Biden border surge estimating 22M in the country illegally (or more):
While that study is contested by the usual think tanks (such as Pew), it seems to open up the possibility that there are a lot more than commonly believed.
Being in the United States without some kind of legal status is a civil, not a criminal, violation.
Your statement doesn't distinguish between visa overstays and entry into the US without inspection. Unless something has recently changed, my understanding is:
If you sneak across the border without inspection, you are a criminal (misdemeanor).
If you overstay your student or tourist visa, you are typically not (civil).
But if you are deported after an overstay and enter again without approval, felony. Same for those denied entry and try to enter again.
Whether or not you or I like the law, that is what I believe it is. The vast majority of the debate centers on those trying to enter without inspection, not the overstays. It also includes those here under Biden's much-expanded rules for asylum and parole, seen as illegitimate by many. Either way, we are not talking about a speeding ticket.
I've just read hsh's link about the Young Republicans. Surprise, surprise. And also to see that J D Vance continues to distinguish himself. Jesus F Christ.
Kind of interesting that in the 20 years since this was originally posted, in the case of a pandemic we (the OECD countries) have developed the ability to formulate a vaccine and manufacture a billion doses in under a year.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.
On “Opinions on settings”
3 links seems too few, 5 seems like a better compromise between overly strict and being exposed to spam.
14 days is probably too short - some threads seem to want to go on longer. 21? A month? But longer than a month seems unnecessary - usually if a thread goes on that long it's because it's wandered off onto a different topic that probably deserves its own post.
Don't know what I think about the subscriber thing. What does it give you that you don't get by just walking up to the site? Not having to re-enter name and password each time would be handy, but not sure if that alone is worth the extra fuss.
My biggest ask would be to make "Oldest" the default sort order. I (personally) find it confusing to go bottom-up to follow the chronological sequence of posts. But others may prefer the current default.
As always, thank you all for keeping this place alive!
"
I'd be fine with boosting the link limit to something like 5. 10 definitely seems excessive -- if you have a burning need to share more, putting in multiple comments doesn't seem that much of a burden.
As for closing comments, I incline to something like 21 days. Anything over a month is just way too long. But 14 is a bit short.
"
A small complaint about the current comment plugin... When I post a comment, it appears at the top of the comment list, but any comments that have been submitted since I loaded the page and the time my comment is posted do not appear. I have to refresh the page in order to see them.
"
1) My opinion is that three links are okay, more are not. Something with more than three links generally deserves to be a top-level post with its own discussion, not a comment.
2) 14 days seems too short. 30? I believe that long open periods don't stimulate additional discussion because very late comments are almost invisible. The post has long-since scrolled off the front page, and the comment will quickly scroll off the recent-comments list.
3) The most useful feature is probably not having to type your name or e-mail each time, with possible mistyped e-mail address. Avoiding the wrong address benefits people who use an address registered at Gravatar.com. There are a handful of people on the internet who actually recognize my stupid picture of a transistor as a sort-of credential. That feature doesn't benefit me personally; I have code running in my browser that auto-fills the name and e-mail fields at the few sites where I comment regularly.
Someone should write a post about the pros and cons of concealing your identity.
I maintain a piece of code at another site that provides a comment-centric view of what's going on. One of the features is a paged, time-ordered list of all the comments associated with a particular name, either for a single post, or across all posts. While I am seldom interested in looking at a history of my own comments, it is occasionally useful to look at part of the history of a specific user's comments. Eg, if I know GftNC made a comment I've been thinking about, but I don't remember exactly which post it was attached to.
"
Thanks GftNC, that's helpful.
About subscriber superpowers
I'm trying to take out the up/down vote, but it's built in the plugin, so requires some buk lernin on my part.
"
Thank you lj - since bc's going into spam with 3 seems to show that ATM only 2 is safe, perhaps a limit of 6, which means 5 would be safe? That's my vote.
On duration, how about 21 days or 28?
On subscribers, I can't really see the advantage (although being able to see one's past comments could be useful). On editing one's profile, would that be like when I changed to GftNC from the full version for weird Typepad cause? Perhaps not necessary here?
Upvote/downvote: IMO totally unnecessary, and an unwelcome development from what is our normal way of dealing with each other.
"
The limit is set at 3, but it is possible to change it. Boosting it up to 10 is possible, but the reason it is not just open is that it is an easy way to try and identify spam
1 vote for longer than 14 days, any idea how much longer? You don't want it open forever because then spammers drop comments in (and my anal retentive self gets really angry when I read something and go thru the comments and find one of thos f**king spam posts there)
About information 'in the wild', some people prefer not to sign up for things. I'm not going to distribute anyone else's info, and I try to be careful, but as soon as you are making it so your commenting history can be pulled up by you, something could happen to make them available more widely. I'm not positive how much information can be seen by others, and I'm not going to just open everything up for anyone to sign up, but if people don't want to subscribe (or don't know what it means and don't do it), I don't want to spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to add features for subscribers.
With the commenting plugin, there is a system for up/down voting comments. I was planning on removing that, but it is like an appendix or tonsils, where you don't mess with it unless it is causing problems.
On “Let’s start calling a thug a thug”
I'm v glad nous's "edited" comment below was rescued. I think it is exactly right.
On “Opinions on settings”
Oh, I've just tried to see what the +0- at the bottom is for - is it for the equivalent of likes and dislikes?
"
1. I'm amazed that bc got sent to spam with 3 links. I don't even think 10 is too many.
2. IMO 14 days may be too short. I never counted, but my impression is that some of our best threads at the old site went on for longer than that.
3. I'm not sure what this means, unless the sentence on Limited Capabilities means "Only a user with the subscriber role can generally:", although frankly I'm not sure what it all means even then! How would any of our information be "in the wild" anyway? Does it mean that all subscribers would be able to see each other's contact details etc? Don't underestimate quite how clueless some of us ancient non-tech types are!
On “Let’s start calling a thug a thug”
Hi all, just a quick bts note. Nous is right, editing a comment gets it put in the spam bucket. There was also a comment from bc there which I have pulled out and posted, it was blocked because it had 3 links.
I'm making a separate post to get opinions on some things on the blog so as not to disrupt this discussion. Thanks!
"
There again - editing your already posted comment may end up getting that comment marked as potential spam, so we may have extra motivation not to abuse the edits.
"
If I'd known russell were responding on the doxxing thing and covering the same points I was making, I'd have saved the typing and the risk of further piling on bc.
Also, I just noticed that we can now edit our comments after posting them. Let us try our best to use these powers only for good.
"
Hello bc -
Thank you for your thoughtful response! I'll try to reply briefly.
I think you are correct as regards the law. The severity of the offense depends on whether someone came through a federal entry point vs. just walking across the border somewhere, and also whether someone is trying to re-enter illegally after having been deported.
Thank you for the clarification and correction, I appreciate it.
First, we are on the same page as regards people with criminal histories or demonstrable gang affiliation. I would except folks whose "criminal history" is a moving violation, but certainly crimes against persons or property are legitimate grounds for deportation or refusal of entry.
I don't actually prefer the folks who are here without legal status to the 5 million waiting in line. If I understand the estimates of the size of the "no legal status" numbers, they actually include many of those 5 million - people waiting for an asylum ruling, people here under TPS, basically anyone who has not yet been granted permanent legal residency.
For folks who did straight-up sneak in or overstay their visa - people who are *not* in the pipeline - it's legitimate to deport them, or at least require them to justify their presence here on some legitimate basis (fear of being killed if they return, frex). But I also think we need to be realistic about what we can do without turning the country into a police state. Reagan offered amnesty, we've since had Dreamers, those are both programs intended to deal with the situation humanely and realistically. Don't know if they are appropriate to the current situation.
I personally would be fine with defining a structured path to residency for folks who have been here for some time - 5 years? pick a number - and who have no criminal record. Especially folks who are in families of mixed immigration status - right now we are deporting people who have kids here, and who have been here for years and years. That doesn't seem right, to me.
I'm curious to understand your point about the folks "waiting in line" a little more clearly. Are they "waiting in line" here in this country, i.e., their status is in process but not yet granted? Are they waiting in some other country for a request to immigrate to be granted? I want to understand how the presence of an undocumented person here harms them, or is unfair to them in some tangible way.
Purely from a practical point of view, the focus should be on people who are here with no legal status and who are making trouble. Criminals, gang members. And I agree that the DHS numbers are BS. My understanding, based on cites of ICE's own statistics, is that 80% of the people being held in the Burlington facility near me have no criminal record.
Lastly, I agree that if ICE folks didn't wear masks, they would be at risk of being doxed, and that there is potential for harm there. I would counter that *if they weren't acting as they are acting*, that risk would be significantly reduced. Cops, FBI, etc. generally don't find it necessary to wear masks. ICE's own behavior - their violence and total disregard for due process - is what creates, or at least exacerbates, that risk. They are lawless.
I agree that it's a hard problem, and that there is no perfect solution. But what we are doing right now is nuts. Not "nuts" as in "silly and amusing", but "nuts" as in harmful and destructive, not just to immigrants, but to all of us.
Due process applies to everyone, or else we are all at risk of losing it.
"
Tony P. - I’d like to know more about this “doxing”. I do not trust Kristi Noem’s statements about it any more than I trust her DHS 70% statistic. Let’s hear about a few actual cases.
Not meaning to come in here and force bc to engage and defend this while outnumbered. I do think it is important to note, though, that this particular scenario does not start with people on the left being upset that the Trump administration is enforcing the immigration laws and respond by doxxing ICE agents wholesale.
It starts with ICE being given arbitrary quotas and being sent out to grab people based on language and ethnicity, and detaining and deporting people without due process.
And even with that, the few people who have actually been doxxed (as opposed to those who are afraid of being doxxed - not for enforcing the law, but for being violent while pursuing these reprehensible tactics) only ended up getting doxxed because they were the ones caught being especially, shockingly violent on video while engaging in these reprehensible tactics.
Should the public's response here be to say that all ICE agents should be allowed to wear masks so they need not fear being identified, or should it be to say that ICE needs to stop these show raids and use their enforcement power only to go after the actual criminals in a way that does not violate their right to due process? And if we protest it should be both, which of the sides of that choice should be the one we give priority to?
On “The Mother-in-law defense”
Pro Bono - What we are doing to the planet really matters. What the US is doing matters a lot, because why should poorer countries restrain themselves if the US won’t.
There is that, and also the data suggests that the top 1% of the world are responsible for 2/3 of the warming measured since 1990, and we have over 900 billionaires in our country. China is next closest with 516, and only 3 other nation states have more than 100.
But then here is another shocker - to be in the top 1% worldwide, you need only to make $60,000 a year*, so I'd guess that most of us writing here are in that 1%.
*If we are talking income rather than wealth. Wealth is probably a better measure, but it's also a harder measure to come by.
On “Let’s start calling a thug a thug”
TP:
Indictment for three women following an ICE agent home and livestreaming it:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-cdca/pr/federal-grand-jury-charges-three-women-following-ice-agent-home-work-and-livestreaming
DHS' announcement re Portland doxxing here:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/07/11/anarchists-and-rioters-portland-illegally-dox-ice-officers-and-federal-law
Note that you can actually look up the Antifa group doing this on the web and see the actual posters they were distributing. I'm not going to link to that, for obvious reasons. But I take that as verification of what Noem is saying.
Arrest of a Santa Monica man for doxxing an ICE attorney:
https://smdp.com/news/crime/santa-monica-man-arrested-for-allegedly-doxxing-ice-attorney/
On “The Mother-in-law defense”
No question that climate change is criticality important. What it is not is an issue which will move votes. At this point, political campaigns simply cannot be about educating voters about things that the ought to care about. It has to be about getting them in side for the next election.
God willing, we will get back to a place where we can focus on educating voters. Rather than having to focus on saving the country. But we aren't there now.
"
One issue which may not be a vote-winner but remains vitally important is climate change.
Atmospheric carbon dioxide levels are surging. The climate is warming. And the US president lectures the UN that the whole thing is a hoax, on the basis of exactly zero scientific understanding. He simple says what he and his voters want to believe. Perversely, he is going out of his way to increase emissions.
What we are doing to the planet really matters. What the US is doing matters a lot, because why should poorer countries restrain themselves if the US won't. It's horrible that the dangers of fascism are so acute that the threat to the climate is often not close to the forefront of our concerns.
On “Let’s start calling a thug a thug”
if one genuinely wanted to attack the problem one would go after the employers, who have much more to lose than the illegal immigrants.
Fact is, nobody has done it. It's now peculiar to Trunp & Co., so it's not just about Trump being a big empliyer of illehals.
The law has been in place forever. But when I.C.E. (or its predecessors) make a raid on a workplace, somehow the employer never faces legal consequences. Even in cases where the employees really are illegally here (and not merely of the "wrong" racial or ethnic group).
"
I don't claim to know very much about illegal immigration to the USA, but it seems to me that if one genuinely wanted to attack the problem one would go after the employers, who have much more to lose than the illegal immigrants.
I'm going to guess that Trump hasn't done that. Tell me if I'm wrong.
"
bc: Doxing produced masks, which engender fear and are then criticized as fascist.
I'd like to know more about this "doxing". I do not trust Kristi Noem's statements about it any more than I trust her DHS 70% statistic. Let's hear about a few actual cases.
I am quite prepared to believe that there have been instances of people being publicly identified as ICE "agents", and I can easily believe those people were annoyed and embarrassed. But what else happened?
--TP
"
Russell:
I appreciate the numbers view, and I agree that our country can accept a significant number of (legal) immigrants. How many is a policy decision and best made by Congress rather than having that decision made de facto by illegal immigrants.
To be clear, I am in favor of immigration and I am sympathetic to anyone trying to improve their life. I worked professionally in the immigration area years ago (pre-ICE). I too see the very real fear that is out there now. I saw that fear in downtown LA during the Reagan years around the time of amnesty and see it again today amongst the immigrant population when I visit the Pasadena area for work.
As for how this is being handled now, I agree with you to a significant degree. Depending on who you listen to, it either is or is not focusing on those we would all agree should be deported (criminal record, pending criminal charges, gang members, etc.). DHS says 70%. Other reports are much, much less. I'm strongly in favor of deporting anyone who entered without inspection with a conviction or criminal charges pending or gang association. I also think the resistance isn't helping calm things down and that to me is by design. Doxing produced masks, which engender fear and are then criticized as fascist. And on it goes.
As for the rest of those here without papers, how do you prefer those to the 5 million or so waiting in line? There are IMO far more who entered illegally already in the country. I think the numbers are underrepresented. See this MIT-Yale study before the Biden border surge estimating 22M in the country illegally (or more):
https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/yale-study-finds-twice-as-many-undocumented-immigrants-as-previous-estimates
While that study is contested by the usual think tanks (such as Pew), it seems to open up the possibility that there are a lot more than commonly believed.
Being in the United States without some kind of legal status is a civil, not a criminal, violation.
Your statement doesn't distinguish between visa overstays and entry into the US without inspection. Unless something has recently changed, my understanding is:
If you sneak across the border without inspection, you are a criminal (misdemeanor).
If you overstay your student or tourist visa, you are typically not (civil).
But if you are deported after an overstay and enter again without approval, felony. Same for those denied entry and try to enter again.
Whether or not you or I like the law, that is what I believe it is. The vast majority of the debate centers on those trying to enter without inspection, not the overstays. It also includes those here under Biden's much-expanded rules for asylum and parole, seen as illegitimate by many. Either way, we are not talking about a speeding ticket.
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I've just read hsh's link about the Young Republicans. Surprise, surprise. And also to see that J D Vance continues to distinguish himself. Jesus F Christ.
On “From the archive: hilzoy on Avian Flu (9 Oct 2005)”
Kind of interesting that in the 20 years since this was originally posted, in the case of a pandemic we (the OECD countries) have developed the ability to formulate a vaccine and manufacture a billion doses in under a year.
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