I've had two criticisms of Dem pols for many, many years: 1. the lack of fight and 2. the mushy, wishy-washy "respectable" way of speaking that fails to communicate anything.
I think the Dems have improved on both fronts but there is a ways to go. For example, Kaine said why he voted to end the shutdown. He said something about how there didn't seem to be any other way forward mumble mumble blah blah.
What he meant and what he should have said is this: "The Republicans don't care about anything except power for power's sake and they are willing, indeed committed to, harming millions of Americans just so they can feel powerful. They are willing to spin out the shut down until federal workers go bankrupt, children are malnourished and millions lose their health insurance. Democrats aren't ruthlessly willing to sacrifice our neighbors for power. We decided to cut a deal to save as many people as possible. This shameful episode shows that Republicans genuinely do not care about people and only care about power."
But because of the mumble mumble blah blah we have headlines saying that the shutdown was for nothing.
I think it would be helpful if the Democrats could figure out how to be moderate enough to allow more moderates to support them. These favorability ratings in the face of a fascist take over of government reflect how out of touch the Dems are at the other extreme. I keep looking for that party that isn't a sinking ship and don't see one.
As for the millions of Americans fucked by the ACA subsidies being cut, that was the plan put forward from the beginning. They were to last 5 years then phase out. That was never feasible but it was the plan bullied through Congress and part of the crowning achievement. Tough to have to live with it now. But both parties have not made them permanent for all these years so they both suck. As has the ACA structure from the beginning. It was an attempt to force employer insurance to go away and force full government controlled health care. It failed to accomplish that so its just a shitty half baked solution that is essential. Next Congress should just make the subsidies permanent and take the budget heat.
While I appreciate the analysis of the possible / likely tactical scenarios leading up to the "deal", the bottom line (to me) is that a lot of people are basically fucked.
The cost of private health insurance is probably going to double, or worse, for most folks that have it.
What I personally take away from all of this - and by "all of this" I mean the last decade if not longer - is that the (R) party and the conservative movement in general no longer serves the interests of the people of this country. What I see from them is cruelty and greed.
I understand that politics is the art of the possible, and that professional politicians need to do what they can in the particular circumstances they operate in.
And I'm glad that federal employees are gonna get paid.
But in the immortal words of Jerry Garcia, one way or another this darkness has got to give.
To say that people being outraged at the prospect of millions of their neighbors facing the choice of extreme financial distress or going without health insurance is "wailing and rending of garments" is dismissive and, frankly, kind of rude. People *should* be outraged.
To address GFTNC's cite of Marshall's piece, the thrust of what he was saying as far as I can tell is that yes, this totally sucks, but it's nice to see the (D)'s at least try to use the limited levers of power available to them.
And I don't disagree with that.
And like him, I'd like to see them do even more.
The (R)'s seriously deserve to be driven from the public space. They've become a dysfunctional, toxic cancer on the body public.
I suggest you moderate conservatives being the process of building an alternative. That, or go down with the sinking ship that is the (R) party.
without having any idea which approach is more correct.
Not going to be possible to tell soon, if ever, what the actual outcomes of the various possible scenarios would have been. Lots of speculation (including mine), mostly dressed up as certainty. The most we can hope for is some 20/20 hindsight on how what was done played out.
I'm glad of these slightly more positive interpretations (inc Josh Marshall, who hilzoy seems to respect), without having any idea which approach is more correct.
I think the "capitulation" was leadership's call. They had done as much damage politically to Trump and the GOP as they could get, and neither Trump nor Johnson were ever going to give up the subsidies. Johnson, in particular, almost automatically loses any tiny shred of credibility he has left if he does.
The Democrats picked people retiring or not having to run next year so minimal damage, leadership still gets to complain, but the pain eases.
I think it was as artfully played as possible. Kudos to Schumer and team.
My point was, that extension wasn’t going to come out regardless.
You are most likely right.
The wailing and rending of garments is not going to be "on the left". It's going to be coming from all the people who are being immiserated by this catastrophe of an administration.
I spend a lot of time in Spotify, average 4 hours a day, many days 12 hours I have a few 50 hour playlists but they aren't really curated, I have 20 or more 1 to 12 hour playlists carefully curated to the mood I wanted.
With that context, my Spotify listening has become a challenge as the algorithm is so trainable that almost any way I let Spotify pick songs it quickly just duplicates playlists I already have created with a different song here and there.
So, it trained me to be more imaginative in my seed requests. Song radio is my favorite way to listen, so I very carefully consider the seed song if I want a certain genre/era of music. It has become really fun to pick more obscure songs by lesser known artists to see how long it takes for that trail to lead back to my choices.
All to say that Spotify can be a fun pastime if you recognize its limitations and try to get around them. If you pick Willie Nelsons On the Road Again or Willis Alan Ramsey's Ballad of Spider John you eventually get to Jerry Jeff Walker but the road there is quite different.
I think it is a mistake to treat the defection of the eight and the decision to end the shutdown as only a matter of cost/benefit analysis for the possible outcomes. My earlier quotation addresses that:
Please don’t be so “revolutionary” that you think electoral politics never matter and please don’t be so “moderate” that you think electoral politics are all that matter. – Abiola Agoro
As I have said before of union bargaining strategies, sometimes it's important to fight a losing battle in order to establish the narrative for the next battle and make your opponent think about the cost of that next victory. It's the reason why so many older brothers say that you have to hit the bully as hard as you can even if they are going to beat the crap out of you. It also sends an important message to allies and bystanders that the bully can be resisted and hurt.
So for me the questions "are we going to win?" and "are people going to get hurt if we resis?t" are not the only important questions. It's also important to ask how accepting that loss at this moment is going to affect the public narrative and the results of the next such confrontation. If holding out for another week gives the GOP another full week of having to deal with Blue Wave stories without significantly adding to the suffering of at-risk people, then I think you have to try to stretch it for one more week, and your caucus puts energy into helping take the sting out of the need with food drives and informational campaigns and partnerships with progressive faith groups. You still give in, but you give in on your terms, when you have a more opportune moment to control the narrative.
I think this is what Agoro is getting at when she says not to be so moderate that you think electoral politics are all that matter.
I'll also say here that I think Kaine, being the Senator for Virginia, was probably under a lot of pressure from a constituency that is heavy with fired federal workers who were asking him to find a way to get them their jobs back. I think his decision made sense, and while I don't think he should be let off the hook, I do think that any punishment he get from the caucus should be less than what the others receive.
The others should be out in the cold for any political favors for a long time, and I would not be sad if they were challenged in their next primaries.
What is not going to come out of all of this is any kind of extension of the ACA subsidies.
My point was, that extension wasn't going to come out regardless. Those Republicans in Congress (on their own, let alone driven by Trump) simply are not going to extend those until the increased insurance costs generate howls from their own constituents. And they never were. There simply is no plausible scenario where that would happen before spring. Because, even if the Senate Republicans were somehow brought to agree to it, the House simply wouldn't concur.
Whether they allow a vote next month on those subsidies, as agreed, or not, it's fairly certain that an extension will fail to pass. And when it does, it will be defeated stand-alone -- no other spending distractions. (Of course, the Congressional Republicans might surprise us all. But I figure it will be months before they can bring themselves to act.)
Wjca's point about whether Johnson will bring the House back or not is an interesting one. He's kind of between a rock and a hard place.
But overall I'm with wonkie.
What is not going to come out of all of this is any kind of extension of the ACA subsidies. Trump hates the ACA because people call it Obamacare and he hates hates hates hates hates Obama because that uppity black man made fun of him.
The "deal" is for a vote in the Senate. Which may or may not happen. There is no deal with the House. Trump has Johnson on some kind of weird short leash, which means there will not be a deal in the House.
And yes, what most people are going to take away from all of this is (a) the Dems caved and (b) my health insurance costs are going to be utterly unsustainable.
I'll also say that I find the "wailing and rending of garments on the left" line a bit offensive. This isn't some political inside baseball thing. People are going to have to choose between health insurance and other really essential things. They're gonna have to work another job, or sell their house, or not go to college. Stuff like that.
Or, just not have health insurance, cross their fingers, and hope they get lucky. Which some of them will not be, and some of those folks will die.
GftNC, you have to understand. For some, the options were a) cave in like this (their phrasing, not mine), or b) hang tough a tiny bit longer until the Republicans cave. If those were indeed the choices, their rage over option a) would be well placed.
But those weren't actually the options. Instead we had
a) accept a continuing resolution for the next couple of months, get some relief for a whole lot of Federal workers, and pick up the fight again in January. There is, after all, no chance the GOP will be in any better position then than now. Oh yes, and get a couple of elected Democrats seated finally.
Or
b) hang tough, no matter the collateral damage. While a lot of Federal workers go bankrupt, SNAP money runs out (for real), and a lot of people see their health insurance premiums skyrocket -- except they hear a lot about how the Democrats wouldn't let a bill to fix it even come to a vote.
Be clear, getting ACA funding done wasn't going to happen either way. (At least not for several more months minimum.). But this way, it's starkly obvious that the Republicans have sole ownership of the mess.
Now our strategy going forward to save the Democrats from complete disgrace is to run hard against the Cowardly Cave-in Caucus and get headlines that say "Don't Blame the Whole Party for the Acts of Few" which is a muddled message with nowhere near the power of the bad press the CCC has given us. Still, it's the only way to have any credibility in the midterms. Dems running for Congress will have to run hard against the decision to end the shut down without saving the ACA. 'Making this deal is malpractice.' It's Democrat vs. Democrat as shutdown nears end
These are not the kind of headlines that lead to a blue wave in the midterms. These are the kind of headlines that lead to "Both parties suck, there's no point in voting, vote third party, Dems are weak, Dems don't fight..." Democrats Concede Shutdown Fight Without Health Care Win in Hand
"Oh yes, there will be the usual wailing and rending of garments from the left. Because, the very idea of something less than total victory is anathema. But then, strategy and tactics: not a core competency there."
The idea wasn't total victory--only saving people who get ACA insurance. That's all. There was never an effort to save Medicaid, prevent the cuts in Medicare that are coming because of the increased deficit, roll back the tax cuts for the rich...the Republican bill sucks in every aspect but the Dems in Congress chose only one to stand on and they caved on that one.
Now all those people will lose their insurance because they won't be able to afford the rate increase. I lost my insurance temporarily a while ago and had to pay 900 for a one-month COBRA. It's not the kind of experience people forget or forgive.
I agree that strategy and tactics are not core competencies with the DSA left. It should be obvious though that for DECADES strategy and tactics have not been core to Congressional Dems either, not when it comes to national issues.
They completely fail to understand that they are not going to get MAGA votes, that the Republican party never operates in good faith, and that outside of MAGA most voters (especially indies) vote emotionally and have no clue at all about insider baseball tactics or policies and want to be able to vote for perceived strength and commitment.
Acting in a way that leads to headlines that say, "Dems agree to end shutdown" followed by millions suffering rate increases is fucking stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid--on an order of stupid as supporting the war in Iraq.
What a spineless bunch they are, or maybe just so stupid and naive they still think they're essentially dealing with politics as usual. They are the very definition of the frog in the heating-up pot.
Pretty clear where this is going. First, it isn't going anywhere unless Johnson is willing to bring the House back into session to vote on the changes from what they previously passed. In which case . . . Epstein Files! And if he won't, no cover about "if only the Democrats would let the Senate vote." They totally own the mess.
Second, assuming it passes, then what. First, a lot of Federal employees who were stuck working without pay, or were furloughed, get their family economies patched up thru the holidays. Also, the new funding bill only runs thru the end of January. Which means that we probably see another shutdown then -- lest voters forget this shutdown by the time voting starts.
Oh yes, there will be the usual wailing and rending of garments from the left. Because, the very idea of something less than total victory is anathema. But then, strategy and tactics: not a core competency there.
My bet is that the Democrats end up with a big boost out of this, come next November. And that's assuming (and frankly, it's a heroic assumption) that, some time next spring, the Republicans in Congress get themselves together without another shutdown at the end of the fiscal year, i.e. next fall, right before the election.
First Circuit Appeals Court has upheld the SNAP ruling, and Justice Jackson has given the administration until 11am to decide whether they want to continue with the appeal.
Should have waited for this to hit before caving on cloture.
It seems there is always a faction of Democrats who find a way to take two steps back as soon as the party manages one step forward. It's too easy to be the lesser of two evils when the greater evil is evil itself.
Cortez Masto (NV), Fetterman (PA), Durbin (IL), Hassan (NH), Kaine (VA), Rosen (NV), Shaheen (NH), King (Ind. ME).
The Nevada contingent aren't much of a surprise. Fetterman is Manchin in a hoodie. Shaheen and Durbin are retiring and probably decided to throw themselves on the cloture grenade to end the shutdown because there were other Dems that were wavering and wanted cover.
I really wish that they would have held out at least until the First Circuit handed down their decision on SNAP. If they had affirmed that SNAP needed covering, then the cloture could have come right after The Ancient Orange One went on record *yet again* to deny aid to hungry children and seniors. The Dems could have been the compassionate ones in that moment. Had the First Circuit sided with The Ancient Orange One, the Dems could play it just the same and be the ones coming to the rescue of the needy.
This just looks like a loss of courage in the wake of a Blue Wave, and it kills any sense of momentum or hope.
A lot of Reactionary Centrists have been arguing that this was inevitable, and that the people who wanted to continue the shutdown were all callously ignoring the plight of the needy from positions of privilege. They consistently fail to see beyond electoral politics.
Please don’t be so “revolutionary” that you think electoral politics never matter and please don’t be so “moderate” that you think electoral politics are all that matter. - Abiola Agoro
I think the tendency of Congressional Democrats to try to find compromise and "solutions" is a positive that functions as a negative. I am so completely disgusted by the stupidity of the Senate Dems of the Cowardly Cave In Caucus.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.
On “Spelunking for fun and profit”
I've had two criticisms of Dem pols for many, many years: 1. the lack of fight and 2. the mushy, wishy-washy "respectable" way of speaking that fails to communicate anything.
I think the Dems have improved on both fronts but there is a ways to go. For example, Kaine said why he voted to end the shutdown. He said something about how there didn't seem to be any other way forward mumble mumble blah blah.
What he meant and what he should have said is this: "The Republicans don't care about anything except power for power's sake and they are willing, indeed committed to, harming millions of Americans just so they can feel powerful. They are willing to spin out the shut down until federal workers go bankrupt, children are malnourished and millions lose their health insurance. Democrats aren't ruthlessly willing to sacrifice our neighbors for power. We decided to cut a deal to save as many people as possible. This shameful episode shows that Republicans genuinely do not care about people and only care about power."
But because of the mumble mumble blah blah we have headlines saying that the shutdown was for nothing.
On “When virtues become vices”
I think it would be helpful if the Democrats could figure out how to be moderate enough to allow more moderates to support them. These favorability ratings in the face of a fascist take over of government reflect how out of touch the Dems are at the other extreme. I keep looking for that party that isn't a sinking ship and don't see one.
As for the millions of Americans fucked by the ACA subsidies being cut, that was the plan put forward from the beginning. They were to last 5 years then phase out. That was never feasible but it was the plan bullied through Congress and part of the crowning achievement. Tough to have to live with it now. But both parties have not made them permanent for all these years so they both suck. As has the ACA structure from the beginning. It was an attempt to force employer insurance to go away and force full government controlled health care. It failed to accomplish that so its just a shitty half baked solution that is essential. Next Congress should just make the subsidies permanent and take the budget heat.
On “Spelunking for fun and profit”
Hey, look at the bright side. At least the Senators who were investigated for their possible involvement in J6 can sue the DOJ for up to $500K.
Silver linings, everyone.
On “When virtues become vices”
While I appreciate the analysis of the possible / likely tactical scenarios leading up to the "deal", the bottom line (to me) is that a lot of people are basically fucked.
The cost of private health insurance is probably going to double, or worse, for most folks that have it.
What I personally take away from all of this - and by "all of this" I mean the last decade if not longer - is that the (R) party and the conservative movement in general no longer serves the interests of the people of this country. What I see from them is cruelty and greed.
I understand that politics is the art of the possible, and that professional politicians need to do what they can in the particular circumstances they operate in.
And I'm glad that federal employees are gonna get paid.
But in the immortal words of Jerry Garcia, one way or another this darkness has got to give.
To say that people being outraged at the prospect of millions of their neighbors facing the choice of extreme financial distress or going without health insurance is "wailing and rending of garments" is dismissive and, frankly, kind of rude. People *should* be outraged.
To address GFTNC's cite of Marshall's piece, the thrust of what he was saying as far as I can tell is that yes, this totally sucks, but it's nice to see the (D)'s at least try to use the limited levers of power available to them.
And I don't disagree with that.
And like him, I'd like to see them do even more.
The (R)'s seriously deserve to be driven from the public space. They've become a dysfunctional, toxic cancer on the body public.
I suggest you moderate conservatives being the process of building an alternative. That, or go down with the sinking ship that is the (R) party.
It deserves to sink.
"
without having any idea which approach is more correct.
Not going to be possible to tell soon, if ever, what the actual outcomes of the various possible scenarios would have been. Lots of speculation (including mine), mostly dressed up as certainty. The most we can hope for is some 20/20 hindsight on how what was done played out.
"
I'm glad of these slightly more positive interpretations (inc Josh Marshall, who hilzoy seems to respect), without having any idea which approach is more correct.
"
Well said, Marty.
"
I think the "capitulation" was leadership's call. They had done as much damage politically to Trump and the GOP as they could get, and neither Trump nor Johnson were ever going to give up the subsidies. Johnson, in particular, almost automatically loses any tiny shred of credibility he has left if he does.
The Democrats picked people retiring or not having to run next year so minimal damage, leadership still gets to complain, but the pain eases.
I think it was as artfully played as possible. Kudos to Schumer and team.
"
My point was, that extension wasn’t going to come out regardless.
You are most likely right.
The wailing and rending of garments is not going to be "on the left". It's going to be coming from all the people who are being immiserated by this catastrophe of an administration.
On “Weekend Music Thread #04 John Mackey”
I spend a lot of time in Spotify, average 4 hours a day, many days 12 hours I have a few 50 hour playlists but they aren't really curated, I have 20 or more 1 to 12 hour playlists carefully curated to the mood I wanted.
With that context, my Spotify listening has become a challenge as the algorithm is so trainable that almost any way I let Spotify pick songs it quickly just duplicates playlists I already have created with a different song here and there.
So, it trained me to be more imaginative in my seed requests. Song radio is my favorite way to listen, so I very carefully consider the seed song if I want a certain genre/era of music. It has become really fun to pick more obscure songs by lesser known artists to see how long it takes for that trail to lead back to my choices.
All to say that Spotify can be a fun pastime if you recognize its limitations and try to get around them. If you pick Willie Nelsons On the Road Again or Willis Alan Ramsey's Ballad of Spider John you eventually get to Jerry Jeff Walker but the road there is quite different.
On “When virtues become vices”
I think it is a mistake to treat the defection of the eight and the decision to end the shutdown as only a matter of cost/benefit analysis for the possible outcomes. My earlier quotation addresses that:
Please don’t be so “revolutionary” that you think electoral politics never matter and please don’t be so “moderate” that you think electoral politics are all that matter. – Abiola Agoro
As I have said before of union bargaining strategies, sometimes it's important to fight a losing battle in order to establish the narrative for the next battle and make your opponent think about the cost of that next victory. It's the reason why so many older brothers say that you have to hit the bully as hard as you can even if they are going to beat the crap out of you. It also sends an important message to allies and bystanders that the bully can be resisted and hurt.
So for me the questions "are we going to win?" and "are people going to get hurt if we resis?t" are not the only important questions. It's also important to ask how accepting that loss at this moment is going to affect the public narrative and the results of the next such confrontation. If holding out for another week gives the GOP another full week of having to deal with Blue Wave stories without significantly adding to the suffering of at-risk people, then I think you have to try to stretch it for one more week, and your caucus puts energy into helping take the sting out of the need with food drives and informational campaigns and partnerships with progressive faith groups. You still give in, but you give in on your terms, when you have a more opportune moment to control the narrative.
I think this is what Agoro is getting at when she says not to be so moderate that you think electoral politics are all that matter.
I'll also say here that I think Kaine, being the Senator for Virginia, was probably under a lot of pressure from a constituency that is heavy with fired federal workers who were asking him to find a way to get them their jobs back. I think his decision made sense, and while I don't think he should be let off the hook, I do think that any punishment he get from the caucus should be less than what the others receive.
The others should be out in the cold for any political favors for a long time, and I would not be sad if they were challenged in their next primaries.
"
What is not going to come out of all of this is any kind of extension of the ACA subsidies.
My point was, that extension wasn't going to come out regardless. Those Republicans in Congress (on their own, let alone driven by Trump) simply are not going to extend those until the increased insurance costs generate howls from their own constituents. And they never were. There simply is no plausible scenario where that would happen before spring. Because, even if the Senate Republicans were somehow brought to agree to it, the House simply wouldn't concur.
Whether they allow a vote next month on those subsidies, as agreed, or not, it's fairly certain that an extension will fail to pass. And when it does, it will be defeated stand-alone -- no other spending distractions. (Of course, the Congressional Republicans might surprise us all. But I figure it will be months before they can bring themselves to act.)
"
Wjca's point about whether Johnson will bring the House back or not is an interesting one. He's kind of between a rock and a hard place.
But overall I'm with wonkie.
What is not going to come out of all of this is any kind of extension of the ACA subsidies. Trump hates the ACA because people call it Obamacare and he hates hates hates hates hates Obama because that uppity black man made fun of him.
The "deal" is for a vote in the Senate. Which may or may not happen. There is no deal with the House. Trump has Johnson on some kind of weird short leash, which means there will not be a deal in the House.
And yes, what most people are going to take away from all of this is (a) the Dems caved and (b) my health insurance costs are going to be utterly unsustainable.
I'll also say that I find the "wailing and rending of garments on the left" line a bit offensive. This isn't some political inside baseball thing. People are going to have to choose between health insurance and other really essential things. They're gonna have to work another job, or sell their house, or not go to college. Stuff like that.
Or, just not have health insurance, cross their fingers, and hope they get lucky. Which some of them will not be, and some of those folks will die.
It's a fucking disaster.
"
GftNC, you have to understand. For some, the options were a) cave in like this (their phrasing, not mine), or b) hang tough a tiny bit longer until the Republicans cave. If those were indeed the choices, their rage over option a) would be well placed.
But those weren't actually the options. Instead we had
a) accept a continuing resolution for the next couple of months, get some relief for a whole lot of Federal workers, and pick up the fight again in January. There is, after all, no chance the GOP will be in any better position then than now. Oh yes, and get a couple of elected Democrats seated finally.
Or
b) hang tough, no matter the collateral damage. While a lot of Federal workers go bankrupt, SNAP money runs out (for real), and a lot of people see their health insurance premiums skyrocket -- except they hear a lot about how the Democrats wouldn't let a bill to fix it even come to a vote.
Be clear, getting ACA funding done wasn't going to happen either way. (At least not for several more months minimum.). But this way, it's starkly obvious that the Republicans have sole ownership of the mess.
"
Josh Marshall seems reasonably sanguine about it:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-quick-take-on-team-caves-big-win/sharetoken/32bf02be-00e6-4b69-8f8e-4aa805cf9e0e
Also:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/with-a-day-to-think-about-it
"
Now our strategy going forward to save the Democrats from complete disgrace is to run hard against the Cowardly Cave-in Caucus and get headlines that say "Don't Blame the Whole Party for the Acts of Few" which is a muddled message with nowhere near the power of the bad press the CCC has given us. Still, it's the only way to have any credibility in the midterms. Dems running for Congress will have to run hard against the decision to end the shut down without saving the ACA. 'Making this deal is malpractice.' It's Democrat vs. Democrat as shutdown nears end
"
These are not the kind of headlines that lead to a blue wave in the midterms. These are the kind of headlines that lead to "Both parties suck, there's no point in voting, vote third party, Dems are weak, Dems don't fight..." Democrats Concede Shutdown Fight Without Health Care Win in Hand
"
"Oh yes, there will be the usual wailing and rending of garments from the left. Because, the very idea of something less than total victory is anathema. But then, strategy and tactics: not a core competency there."
The idea wasn't total victory--only saving people who get ACA insurance. That's all. There was never an effort to save Medicaid, prevent the cuts in Medicare that are coming because of the increased deficit, roll back the tax cuts for the rich...the Republican bill sucks in every aspect but the Dems in Congress chose only one to stand on and they caved on that one.
Now all those people will lose their insurance because they won't be able to afford the rate increase. I lost my insurance temporarily a while ago and had to pay 900 for a one-month COBRA. It's not the kind of experience people forget or forgive.
I agree that strategy and tactics are not core competencies with the DSA left. It should be obvious though that for DECADES strategy and tactics have not been core to Congressional Dems either, not when it comes to national issues.
They completely fail to understand that they are not going to get MAGA votes, that the Republican party never operates in good faith, and that outside of MAGA most voters (especially indies) vote emotionally and have no clue at all about insider baseball tactics or policies and want to be able to vote for perceived strength and commitment.
Acting in a way that leads to headlines that say, "Dems agree to end shutdown" followed by millions suffering rate increases is fucking stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid--on an order of stupid as supporting the war in Iraq.
"
What a spineless bunch they are, or maybe just so stupid and naive they still think they're essentially dealing with politics as usual. They are the very definition of the frog in the heating-up pot.
"
Pretty clear where this is going. First, it isn't going anywhere unless Johnson is willing to bring the House back into session to vote on the changes from what they previously passed. In which case . . . Epstein Files! And if he won't, no cover about "if only the Democrats would let the Senate vote." They totally own the mess.
Second, assuming it passes, then what. First, a lot of Federal employees who were stuck working without pay, or were furloughed, get their family economies patched up thru the holidays. Also, the new funding bill only runs thru the end of January. Which means that we probably see another shutdown then -- lest voters forget this shutdown by the time voting starts.
Oh yes, there will be the usual wailing and rending of garments from the left. Because, the very idea of something less than total victory is anathema. But then, strategy and tactics: not a core competency there.
My bet is that the Democrats end up with a big boost out of this, come next November. And that's assuming (and frankly, it's a heroic assumption) that, some time next spring, the Republicans in Congress get themselves together without another shutdown at the end of the fiscal year, i.e. next fall, right before the election.
"
First Circuit Appeals Court has upheld the SNAP ruling, and Justice Jackson has given the administration until 11am to decide whether they want to continue with the appeal.
Should have waited for this to hit before caving on cloture.
"
It seems there is always a faction of Democrats who find a way to take two steps back as soon as the party manages one step forward. It's too easy to be the lesser of two evils when the greater evil is evil itself.
"
Done deal:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/11/09/democrat-senators-who-voted-end-shutdown/87190180007/
Cortez Masto (NV), Fetterman (PA), Durbin (IL), Hassan (NH), Kaine (VA), Rosen (NV), Shaheen (NH), King (Ind. ME).
The Nevada contingent aren't much of a surprise. Fetterman is Manchin in a hoodie. Shaheen and Durbin are retiring and probably decided to throw themselves on the cloture grenade to end the shutdown because there were other Dems that were wavering and wanted cover.
I really wish that they would have held out at least until the First Circuit handed down their decision on SNAP. If they had affirmed that SNAP needed covering, then the cloture could have come right after The Ancient Orange One went on record *yet again* to deny aid to hungry children and seniors. The Dems could have been the compassionate ones in that moment. Had the First Circuit sided with The Ancient Orange One, the Dems could play it just the same and be the ones coming to the rescue of the needy.
This just looks like a loss of courage in the wake of a Blue Wave, and it kills any sense of momentum or hope.
A lot of Reactionary Centrists have been arguing that this was inevitable, and that the people who wanted to continue the shutdown were all callously ignoring the plight of the needy from positions of privilege. They consistently fail to see beyond electoral politics.
This feels premature.
"
wonkie, that's an excellent observation, especially if the dems do fold on the shutdown as has been reported.
"
I think the tendency of Congressional Democrats to try to find compromise and "solutions" is a positive that functions as a negative. I am so completely disgusted by the stupidity of the Senate Dems of the Cowardly Cave In Caucus.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.