CharlesWT - Some journalists who have been beaten to the point of brain injury may wish to quibble.
I assume that this is about Andy Ngo. Important to note that Ngo does not usually wear anything identifying himself as a member of the press, and often follows groups like Patriot Prayer to film confrontations with antifa groups. He also is known for doxxing antifa protesters on his own channel, and selectively editing them.
His lack of any press identification while traveling with Patriot Prayer is going to get him in the middle of things and mistaken for being a member of that group while they are engaging in their own violent provocation. They may not be "attacking a journalist" so much as they are just trying to hold their own in a clash between violent groups, and they have no indication that Ngo is not a member of Patriot Prayer or associated with them.
But also, more than a few of the antifa people may know who Ngo was, and were going after him because of his having doxxed them or one of their friends. Ngo has given Portland antifa plenty of reasons to hate him personally. He could have been targeted for a beat down, but "journalist" is far too innocent and anodyne a description of his role in context. No one is attacking him for being there and trying to document things while staying out of the confrontation. He's an active participant on one side using his ambiguous position as a journalist to cast himself in a more innocent light.
I'm not defending antifa here. I'm sure that more than a few among them were engaged in felony violence. I'm also sure that many among them were also victims of felony violence and that some of that felony violence was committed by the people who were personal associates of Ngo.
I've lost count of the number of times I've heard or read an alt-right associate say "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" to footage of college students being beaten by police, or by a right-wing activist during an escalation. Ngo is an avid player of stupid games. He's made his name as such, and has hundreds of thousands of subscribers, not all of whom are Russian bots.
A bit about antifa violence and videos, including some of Ngo's work - from Bellingcat:
I have a hard time watching any Ngo video and video of neutrally positioned (and clearly identified) journalists being targeted and fired upon with pepper balls and rubber rounds by riot police, and feeling like that's a legitimate comparison for both-siderism.
I suppose then that cladding the facility with plywood is just a design preference.
Something that happens to any office or sales premises from time to time which has been burgled. Doesn't seem to call for federal troops.
When vehicles need to enter or exit the facility and there are protestors, ICE personnel have to suit up and physically push the protestors back to make a path.
Given what ICE personnel are perpetrating around the nation, including on US citizens, this seems to be the least they can expect and will, probably, get worse in various places. Time for the government to go to war with the people, is it?
Some journalists who have been beaten to the point of brain injury may wish to quibble.
I believe that injuries by ICE are not unknown either, as well as deaths in ICE custody.
The big picture is that, at best, Trump and his cronies are a bunch of idiots. Not so different from previous administrations, just more in your face with it. Though I’d admit, Trump is proving to be uniquely bad.
If this is actually how you see the big picture, it's really hard to know what the point is in discussing this with you.
The big picture is that, at best, Trump and his cronies are a bunch of idiots.
In December, you could have made that argument. Plausibly, if not particularly persuasively. Today? Not so much.
At this point, it's pretty clear that they are not merely a bunch of idiots. At minimum they are a bunch of armed and dangerous psychopaths and sociopaths. Many of them are also idiots. But that is rather beside the point.
Wow, the facility really needs it too – that broken door in June is crying out for federal protection.
I suppose then that cladding the facility with plywood is just a design preference. The local authorities seem unwilling or unable to enforce the law, ordinances, and protect the facility. When vehicles need to enter or exit the facility and there are protestors, ICE personnel have to suit up and physically push the protestors back to make a path.
Honestly Charles, when you you look at the big picture and make these kinds of arguments, ...
The big picture is that, at best, Trump and his cronies are a bunch of idiots. Not so different from previous administrations, just more in your face with it. Though I'd admit, Trump is proving to be uniquely bad.
On one hand, some activists yelling at ICE all night long with a bullhorn. Yes, that’s a PITA.
When you, unlike the narcissistic brats protesting, have a job and responsibilities, it's more than just a PITA.
Antifa isn’t gonna do anything to you if you’re not a declared fascist, white supremacist, Nazi, or similar, or possibly open and vocal supporter of same.
Some journalists who have been beaten to the point of brain injury may wish to quibble.
How many arguments with the theme of "anti-racists are the real racists" have you read over the years? Perhaps the same goes for anti-fascists, says NOT me.
"An inspiring portrait of the private person behind world-famous primatologist Jane Goodall and her legendary study of wild chimpanzees in Africa." Jane's Journey
I’ve been listening to libertarians and right wing folks talking for decades – literally, for decades – about how they’re gonna rise up against government overreach and abuse of power.
When it actually arrives, nothing. Silence. Or open acquiescence.
This. Shame on them.
Have they forgotten what happens when fascists rule? How can anti-fascists be the people they fear?
The federal government has the right to protect the ICE facility.
Wow, the facility really needs it too - that broken door in June is crying out for federal protection. Or, what russell said. Honestly Charles, when you you look at the big picture and make these kinds of arguments, I seriously question what you actually believe and value, if anything.
Libertarians can become outrage exhausted since they can be continuously outraged regardless of who’s running the government.
And yet, with the exception of Radley Balko, the exhaustion always seems to kick in just before they raise their voices against (R) excesses.
On one hand, some activists yelling at ICE all night long with a bullhorn. Yes, that's a PITA.
On the other hand, federal agents invading an apartment complex, breaking into any apartment they can force their way into without AFAICT presenting warrants of any kind, rousting people out into the street in the middle of the night and making them wait zip-tied in their pajamas (if that) for hours while they "look up their records", tossing the contents of people's apartments into the halls, leaving doors broken open, and throwing many folks into vans to be whisked away... somewhere.
Same / same.
Antifa isn't gonna do anything to you if you're not a declared fascist, white supremacist, Nazi, or similar, or possibly open and vocal supporter of same.
The feds are gonna come after you if you're brown.
I've been listening to libertarians and right wing folks talking for decades - literally, for decades - about how they're gonna rise up against government overreach and abuse of power.
When it actually arrives, nothing. Silence. Or open acquiescence.
Tony, it might be worth consulting an immigration attorney. Just to find out what constitutes "lawful authority". The law being how it is, it's possible that you (but nobody else) are lawfully authorized. Worth checking out these days.
I have been known to complain bitterly that US business management has gotten incredibly lazy and cheap, unwilling to be flexible or invest in education and productivity tools.
US business management has gotten utterly short-term focused. Investing, for all too many, is anathema unless it can be done with zero impact on quarterly earnings. I suspect that MBA programs are a significant contributor. But vulture capital asset stripping firms, waiting to attack any form which dates to deviate.
There are exceptions, of course. But they are just that: exceptions. Unfortunately.
So, Charles, is it the Libertarian (or your) position that sending in federal troops, contrary to the wishes of the state authorities, to deal with what respectable news sources show to be an annoying, smallish protest, is the right (or even acceptable) thing to do?
The federal government has the right to protect the ICE facility. Otherwise, it should stay out unless invited in by the state's governor.
Any economic philosophy that is reliant on growth is going to be struggling as it runs up against the reality of climate change. As far as population reduction goes, that's going to take care of itself whether we do anything or not.
Let me add +1 to russell's list of black bloc types - RW accelerationists wanting to turn up the temperature and provoke things like the Guard call-up.
No, I don't think that any of them are in the antifa camp in Portland. The people in the camp are either real antifa types, or are undercover feds (again, I think not, but that has been the case with the RW militias, so I leave open that possibility). The antifa folks would not take kindly to finding a Boogaloo Boy in their midst.
But, for example, in Minneapolis after George Floyd there were RW militia kids who were caught driving in from WI to loot and burn and try to provoke a violent response from the authorities.
If I see a single person in black with a mask wearing visible antifa markers, I automatically assume that they are false flag assholes. The usually get chased off by the activist leaders, but they hang around just far enough away to provoke.
This reminded me of how way back when I was a kid “Made in Japan” meant cheap and shoddy. Now it is more likely to mean “made well”–I suppose because of the Japanese cars that hit the US market at about the time I reached the car buying stage.
Same with Germany in the 19th century. When Bismarck asked how German wares were estimated on the Philadelphia exhibition in 1876, he got the three word answer "billig und schlecht" (cheap and bad).
What I look for in comments or concerns about antifa is some sense of balance.
First, "antifa" and the related term "radical left" have become so vague as to be almost meaningless. There are people who self-identify as antifa, and who will fight - physically fight - people who they consider fascist. Less commonly, they will engage in acts of vandalism, most often toward state property - cop cars, ICE facilities. Most of what they do is not directly violent, although it can be harmful to people they consider fascist - doxing, outing them to employers so they get fired. A lot of their work is tracking the actions of people they consider fascist, many of whom are themselves violent.
There are also folks who are basically anti-capitalist anarchists. They are less commonly involved in fighting and more commonly involved in acts of vandalism and sabotage, often directed at financial institutions. See also the WTO protests of 1999 in Seattle.
And there is also a general rabble of randos who are attracted to public disruption of whatever type. It's often not clear what their goals are, or if they have any, other than being publicly loud and disruptive. Some people just like riots.
All of these folks get labelled "antifa" but they're a sort of overlapping Venn diagram of communities with perhaps related, but distinct, goals.
Real, honest-to-god antifa folks are not that common, and are really focused specifically on f***ing with fascists. Everybody who shows up at a protest wearing black with "big A" armbands and a balaclava are not antifa. A lot of them are just young kids cosplaying some kind of stick-it-to-the-man drama.
We all go through our phases in life.
The randos are probably the most generally dangerous of the above, because their actions are often not focused. They are the looters, folks who set fire to stuff just to watch it burn, folks who smash windows just because they can.
The black bloc folks generally don't want to physically fight anyone, they mostly want to do expensive damage to big corporations. I don't see them around so much anymore.
The real antifa folks will definiely engage in physical fights. Mostly with obvious hard-core right wingers, who themselves like fighting. Sometimes with folks more on the periphery of the hard-core right wing - supporters, etc. They also often bring trauma medical skills, which have been helpful to folks, and not just to antifa folks. During the Charlottesville "Unite the right" mess they provided a buffer between extremely violent right-wing actors and non-violent counter-protestors, likely sparing them a lot of harm and even saving some lives. A service the police on the scene were unable or unwilling to provide.
FWIW, I do not support or endorse any of the above. I think the occasions when violent action are justified are very, very rare. Occasions when they are constructive, even rarer. I suppose things here could get to the point where some kind of organized forceful resistance would be appropriate, but I do not believe we are there yet, and hope we do not get there. And the violent actions of the broad spectrum of folks referred to as "antifa" only play into the violent fantasies and actions of their counterparties on the right.
On the other side of the fence, we have groups like the Proud Boys and the Three Percenters and the Oathkeepers, who among other things have organized the January 6 violent insurrection attempting to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power. They are part of a broader movement that includes the patchwork of militias, self-appointed homegrown private armies who regularly threaten the rest of us with deadly force. And often go beyond threats.
And now we have Trump's ICE agents, who come into peaceful communities wearing full military kit and violently kidnap anyone they care to with no regard for the law or due process.
So there's all of that.
I'm sorry that some folks in Portland are kept awake at night by black-clad youngsters with bullhorns. I'm also sorry for the folks who have been shot in the face by "less than lethal" ordinance. And I'm sorry for the people who have been kidnapped while going about their daily lives - mowing somebody's lawn, taking their kids to school, going to appointments to fulfill the requirements of trying to immigrate "the right way".
I'm sorry for the people who have been assaulted while engaging in legal peaceful protest. I'm sorry for the people who have been murdered while attending services at synagogues and liberal christian churches. I'm sorry for the people who have been, and continue to be, assaulted or murdered for being brown, Muslim, gay, trans, or whatever other thing is today's conservative bete noire.
I'm sorry for the kid who was killed by cops for being black while holding a toy pistol in a playground. And for the guy who was killed by cops for holding an air gun in a Walmart.
There is a lot to grieve. A lot to be sorry about. This is a violent country, there is no getting around it, and it gets worse when things get tense.
I hope you will forgive me if I just can't get that outraged by somebody yelling at ICE all night in Portland, even if it keeps the neighbors awake. It would piss me off, too, if it was in my neighborhood, but there are things that piss me off a hell of a lot more.
What a fascinating exercise this has been. Congrats to nous and lj in particular, although I had no idea who Ethan Nordean was, so thanks to russell for that. So, Charles, is it the Libertarian (or your) position that sending in federal troops, contrary to the wishes of the state authorities, to deal with what respectable news sources show to be an annoying, smallish protest, is the right (or even acceptable) thing to do?
I suppose because of the Japanese cars that hit the US market at about the time I reached the car buying stage.
My first car was a used 1969 Toyota Corolla. My second car was a 1979 Datsun 300ZX (pre corporate name change to Nissan). The improvement in build quality over that ten years should have absolutely terrified Detroit.
I was in college in the early 1970s when Japanese brands became serious contenders in high-end audio equipment.
Consumer video recording put an end to the belief that while Japanese companies could copy American and European engineering, they couldn't innovate.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.
On “Where are the 5 words?”
CharlesWT - Some journalists who have been beaten to the point of brain injury may wish to quibble.
I assume that this is about Andy Ngo. Important to note that Ngo does not usually wear anything identifying himself as a member of the press, and often follows groups like Patriot Prayer to film confrontations with antifa groups. He also is known for doxxing antifa protesters on his own channel, and selectively editing them.
His lack of any press identification while traveling with Patriot Prayer is going to get him in the middle of things and mistaken for being a member of that group while they are engaging in their own violent provocation. They may not be "attacking a journalist" so much as they are just trying to hold their own in a clash between violent groups, and they have no indication that Ngo is not a member of Patriot Prayer or associated with them.
But also, more than a few of the antifa people may know who Ngo was, and were going after him because of his having doxxed them or one of their friends. Ngo has given Portland antifa plenty of reasons to hate him personally. He could have been targeted for a beat down, but "journalist" is far too innocent and anodyne a description of his role in context. No one is attacking him for being there and trying to document things while staying out of the confrontation. He's an active participant on one side using his ambiguous position as a journalist to cast himself in a more innocent light.
I'm not defending antifa here. I'm sure that more than a few among them were engaged in felony violence. I'm also sure that many among them were also victims of felony violence and that some of that felony violence was committed by the people who were personal associates of Ngo.
I've lost count of the number of times I've heard or read an alt-right associate say "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" to footage of college students being beaten by police, or by a right-wing activist during an escalation. Ngo is an avid player of stupid games. He's made his name as such, and has hundreds of thousands of subscribers, not all of whom are Russian bots.
A bit about antifa violence and videos, including some of Ngo's work - from Bellingcat:
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2020/11/18/million-maga-march-unravelling-a-violent-viral-video/
I have a hard time watching any Ngo video and video of neutrally positioned (and clearly identified) journalists being targeted and fired upon with pepper balls and rubber rounds by riot police, and feeling like that's a legitimate comparison for both-siderism.
"
I suppose then that cladding the facility with plywood is just a design preference.
Something that happens to any office or sales premises from time to time which has been burgled. Doesn't seem to call for federal troops.
When vehicles need to enter or exit the facility and there are protestors, ICE personnel have to suit up and physically push the protestors back to make a path.
Given what ICE personnel are perpetrating around the nation, including on US citizens, this seems to be the least they can expect and will, probably, get worse in various places. Time for the government to go to war with the people, is it?
Some journalists who have been beaten to the point of brain injury may wish to quibble.
I believe that injuries by ICE are not unknown either, as well as deaths in ICE custody.
The big picture is that, at best, Trump and his cronies are a bunch of idiots. Not so different from previous administrations, just more in your face with it. Though I’d admit, Trump is proving to be uniquely bad.
If this is actually how you see the big picture, it's really hard to know what the point is in discussing this with you.
"
The big picture is that, at best, Trump and his cronies are a bunch of idiots.
In December, you could have made that argument. Plausibly, if not particularly persuasively. Today? Not so much.
At this point, it's pretty clear that they are not merely a bunch of idiots. At minimum they are a bunch of armed and dangerous psychopaths and sociopaths. Many of them are also idiots. But that is rather beside the point.
"
Wow, the facility really needs it too – that broken door in June is crying out for federal protection.
I suppose then that cladding the facility with plywood is just a design preference. The local authorities seem unwilling or unable to enforce the law, ordinances, and protect the facility. When vehicles need to enter or exit the facility and there are protestors, ICE personnel have to suit up and physically push the protestors back to make a path.
Honestly Charles, when you you look at the big picture and make these kinds of arguments, ...
The big picture is that, at best, Trump and his cronies are a bunch of idiots. Not so different from previous administrations, just more in your face with it. Though I'd admit, Trump is proving to be uniquely bad.
On one hand, some activists yelling at ICE all night long with a bullhorn. Yes, that’s a PITA.
When you, unlike the narcissistic brats protesting, have a job and responsibilities, it's more than just a PITA.
Antifa isn’t gonna do anything to you if you’re not a declared fascist, white supremacist, Nazi, or similar, or possibly open and vocal supporter of same.
Some journalists who have been beaten to the point of brain injury may wish to quibble.
"
How many arguments with the theme of "anti-racists are the real racists" have you read over the years? Perhaps the same goes for anti-fascists, says NOT me.
On “Jane Goodall RIP”
There's a very good documentary about her:
https://films.nationalgeographic.com/jane-the-movie
There is also somewhat related a classic from the 80s about Diane Fossey
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorillas_in_the_Mist
"
"An inspiring portrait of the private person behind world-famous primatologist Jane Goodall and her legendary study of wild chimpanzees in Africa."
Jane's Journey
On “Where are the 5 words?”
I’ve been listening to libertarians and right wing folks talking for decades – literally, for decades – about how they’re gonna rise up against government overreach and abuse of power.
When it actually arrives, nothing. Silence. Or open acquiescence.
This. Shame on them.
Have they forgotten what happens when fascists rule? How can anti-fascists be the people they fear?
I am anti-fascist.
"
The federal government has the right to protect the ICE facility.
Wow, the facility really needs it too - that broken door in June is crying out for federal protection. Or, what russell said. Honestly Charles, when you you look at the big picture and make these kinds of arguments, I seriously question what you actually believe and value, if anything.
"
Libertarians can become outrage exhausted since they can be continuously outraged regardless of who’s running the government.
And yet, with the exception of Radley Balko, the exhaustion always seems to kick in just before they raise their voices against (R) excesses.
On one hand, some activists yelling at ICE all night long with a bullhorn. Yes, that's a PITA.
On the other hand, federal agents invading an apartment complex, breaking into any apartment they can force their way into without AFAICT presenting warrants of any kind, rousting people out into the street in the middle of the night and making them wait zip-tied in their pajamas (if that) for hours while they "look up their records", tossing the contents of people's apartments into the halls, leaving doors broken open, and throwing many folks into vans to be whisked away... somewhere.
Same / same.
Antifa isn't gonna do anything to you if you're not a declared fascist, white supremacist, Nazi, or similar, or possibly open and vocal supporter of same.
The feds are gonna come after you if you're brown.
I've been listening to libertarians and right wing folks talking for decades - literally, for decades - about how they're gonna rise up against government overreach and abuse of power.
When it actually arrives, nothing. Silence. Or open acquiescence.
So I don't believe you. Any of you.
Over and out.
On “Citizenship”
Tony, it might be worth consulting an immigration attorney. Just to find out what constitutes "lawful authority". The law being how it is, it's possible that you (but nobody else) are lawfully authorized. Worth checking out these days.
On “Japan unleashed”
russell, immigration is a temporary solution to falling birth rates simply because falling birth rates are spreading. The sources are not permanent.
"
I have been known to complain bitterly that US business management has gotten incredibly lazy and cheap, unwilling to be flexible or invest in education and productivity tools.
US business management has gotten utterly short-term focused. Investing, for all too many, is anathema unless it can be done with zero impact on quarterly earnings. I suspect that MBA programs are a significant contributor. But vulture capital asset stripping firms, waiting to attack any form which dates to deviate.
There are exceptions, of course. But they are just that: exceptions. Unfortunately.
On “Where are the 5 words?”
I look forward to the expressions of libertarian outrage about the abuse and overreach of government power.
Libertarians can become outrage exhausted since they can be continuously outraged regardless of who's running the government.
"
So, Charles, is it the Libertarian (or your) position that sending in federal troops, contrary to the wishes of the state authorities, to deal with what respectable news sources show to be an annoying, smallish protest, is the right (or even acceptable) thing to do?
The federal government has the right to protect the ICE facility. Otherwise, it should stay out unless invited in by the state's governor.
On “Jane Goodall RIP”
A life well spent
Few better, I'd say.
On “Japan unleashed”
immigration, which seems like a rather temporary solution
This is a bit puzzling to me. Why temporary? Don't immigrants stay (if they can)?
On “Jane Goodall RIP”
R.I.P. Jane Goodall. A life well spent.
And apparently she had a better sense of humor, and took herself less seriously, than either her Institute or that hothead chimp Frodo.
On “Japan unleashed”
Any economic philosophy that is reliant on growth is going to be struggling as it runs up against the reality of climate change. As far as population reduction goes, that's going to take care of itself whether we do anything or not.
On “Where are the 5 words?”
While "antifa" is annoying the neighbors in Portland, the feds are doing this.
I look forward to the expressions of libertarian outrage about the abuse and overreach of government power.
"
Let me add +1 to russell's list of black bloc types - RW accelerationists wanting to turn up the temperature and provoke things like the Guard call-up.
No, I don't think that any of them are in the antifa camp in Portland. The people in the camp are either real antifa types, or are undercover feds (again, I think not, but that has been the case with the RW militias, so I leave open that possibility). The antifa folks would not take kindly to finding a Boogaloo Boy in their midst.
But, for example, in Minneapolis after George Floyd there were RW militia kids who were caught driving in from WI to loot and burn and try to provoke a violent response from the authorities.
If I see a single person in black with a mask wearing visible antifa markers, I automatically assume that they are false flag assholes. The usually get chased off by the activist leaders, but they hang around just far enough away to provoke.
On “Japan unleashed”
This reminded me of how way back when I was a kid “Made in Japan” meant cheap and shoddy. Now it is more likely to mean “made well”–I suppose because of the Japanese cars that hit the US market at about the time I reached the car buying stage.
Same with Germany in the 19th century. When Bismarck asked how German wares were estimated on the Philadelphia exhibition in 1876, he got the three word answer "billig und schlecht" (cheap and bad).
On “Where are the 5 words?”
What I look for in comments or concerns about antifa is some sense of balance.
First, "antifa" and the related term "radical left" have become so vague as to be almost meaningless. There are people who self-identify as antifa, and who will fight - physically fight - people who they consider fascist. Less commonly, they will engage in acts of vandalism, most often toward state property - cop cars, ICE facilities. Most of what they do is not directly violent, although it can be harmful to people they consider fascist - doxing, outing them to employers so they get fired. A lot of their work is tracking the actions of people they consider fascist, many of whom are themselves violent.
There are also folks who are basically anti-capitalist anarchists. They are less commonly involved in fighting and more commonly involved in acts of vandalism and sabotage, often directed at financial institutions. See also the WTO protests of 1999 in Seattle.
And there is also a general rabble of randos who are attracted to public disruption of whatever type. It's often not clear what their goals are, or if they have any, other than being publicly loud and disruptive. Some people just like riots.
All of these folks get labelled "antifa" but they're a sort of overlapping Venn diagram of communities with perhaps related, but distinct, goals.
Real, honest-to-god antifa folks are not that common, and are really focused specifically on f***ing with fascists. Everybody who shows up at a protest wearing black with "big A" armbands and a balaclava are not antifa. A lot of them are just young kids cosplaying some kind of stick-it-to-the-man drama.
We all go through our phases in life.
The randos are probably the most generally dangerous of the above, because their actions are often not focused. They are the looters, folks who set fire to stuff just to watch it burn, folks who smash windows just because they can.
The black bloc folks generally don't want to physically fight anyone, they mostly want to do expensive damage to big corporations. I don't see them around so much anymore.
The real antifa folks will definiely engage in physical fights. Mostly with obvious hard-core right wingers, who themselves like fighting. Sometimes with folks more on the periphery of the hard-core right wing - supporters, etc. They also often bring trauma medical skills, which have been helpful to folks, and not just to antifa folks. During the Charlottesville "Unite the right" mess they provided a buffer between extremely violent right-wing actors and non-violent counter-protestors, likely sparing them a lot of harm and even saving some lives. A service the police on the scene were unable or unwilling to provide.
FWIW, I do not support or endorse any of the above. I think the occasions when violent action are justified are very, very rare. Occasions when they are constructive, even rarer. I suppose things here could get to the point where some kind of organized forceful resistance would be appropriate, but I do not believe we are there yet, and hope we do not get there. And the violent actions of the broad spectrum of folks referred to as "antifa" only play into the violent fantasies and actions of their counterparties on the right.
On the other side of the fence, we have groups like the Proud Boys and the Three Percenters and the Oathkeepers, who among other things have organized the January 6 violent insurrection attempting to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power. They are part of a broader movement that includes the patchwork of militias, self-appointed homegrown private armies who regularly threaten the rest of us with deadly force. And often go beyond threats.
And now we have Trump's ICE agents, who come into peaceful communities wearing full military kit and violently kidnap anyone they care to with no regard for the law or due process.
So there's all of that.
I'm sorry that some folks in Portland are kept awake at night by black-clad youngsters with bullhorns. I'm also sorry for the folks who have been shot in the face by "less than lethal" ordinance. And I'm sorry for the people who have been kidnapped while going about their daily lives - mowing somebody's lawn, taking their kids to school, going to appointments to fulfill the requirements of trying to immigrate "the right way".
I'm sorry for the people who have been assaulted while engaging in legal peaceful protest. I'm sorry for the people who have been murdered while attending services at synagogues and liberal christian churches. I'm sorry for the people who have been, and continue to be, assaulted or murdered for being brown, Muslim, gay, trans, or whatever other thing is today's conservative bete noire.
I'm sorry for the kid who was killed by cops for being black while holding a toy pistol in a playground. And for the guy who was killed by cops for holding an air gun in a Walmart.
There is a lot to grieve. A lot to be sorry about. This is a violent country, there is no getting around it, and it gets worse when things get tense.
I hope you will forgive me if I just can't get that outraged by somebody yelling at ICE all night in Portland, even if it keeps the neighbors awake. It would piss me off, too, if it was in my neighborhood, but there are things that piss me off a hell of a lot more.
Let's look at the bigger picture, please.
"
What a fascinating exercise this has been. Congrats to nous and lj in particular, although I had no idea who Ethan Nordean was, so thanks to russell for that. So, Charles, is it the Libertarian (or your) position that sending in federal troops, contrary to the wishes of the state authorities, to deal with what respectable news sources show to be an annoying, smallish protest, is the right (or even acceptable) thing to do?
On “Japan unleashed”
I suppose because of the Japanese cars that hit the US market at about the time I reached the car buying stage.
My first car was a used 1969 Toyota Corolla. My second car was a 1979 Datsun 300ZX (pre corporate name change to Nissan). The improvement in build quality over that ten years should have absolutely terrified Detroit.
I was in college in the early 1970s when Japanese brands became serious contenders in high-end audio equipment.
Consumer video recording put an end to the belief that while Japanese companies could copy American and European engineering, they couldn't innovate.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.