Surely if American voters hated dishonour as much as all that, there would not be a second Trump presidency.
I'm not sure exactly what would be the focus of 'hating dishonour', but I don't think American voters, as a general rule, give a shit about what goes on outside of the borders, unless it is for the purposes of mythologizing, so the 2nd Trump dumpster fire is only marginally related to that.
As a Wall Street Journal editorial on Friday put it: “Mr. Trump may figure he can finally wash his hands of Ukraine if Europe and Ukraine reject his offer. He’s clearly sick of dealing with the war. But appeasing Mr. Putin would haunt the rest of his presidency. If Mr. Trump thinks American voters hate war, wait until he learns how much they hate dishonor. … A bad deal in Ukraine would broadcast to U.S. enemies that they can seize what they want with force or nuclear blackmail or by pressing on until America loses interest.”
Well, I hope the Wall Street Journal editorial is right about American voters, but I fear it is not. Surely if American voters hated dishonour as much as all that, there would not be a second Trump presidency. The piece from which I have taken that is in today's NYT:
However, I do have some (tiny amount of) hope that if this kind of criticism is very widespread, along with all the signalling from Europe, Trump might (once again!) back slightly off from this kind of approach. I guess this is what's behind today's statement that this was not his final offer. But to follow that by saying if Zelensky refuses to accept the terms, “then he can continue to fight his little heart out.” makes me feel sick. The Chamberlain comparison makes sense; appeasing Putin has been Trump's consistent approach as POTUS in both his terms.
Yeah. I get warnings about the site being potentially unsafe. But I cheerfully downloaded the files anyway. Now I just need to get the software to open them.
Status report on dewarping documents from photographs. I've finally settled on a camera (iPhone 17) and set up lighting, so I'm starting to take pictures seriously. Current state of the art for my dewarping software shown in these images. First one is a 24MP "original" taken with the iPhone. Second one is the dewarped output for it. I've settled on the .avif format as the best combination of quality, compression, and availability.
I read this NYT article
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/11/opinion/dubai-migration-trump.html
but didn't finish it and lost the page that had the gift link. Some pages suggest that Dubai is 92% 'immigrant' and the article had some discussion about a rethinking of what citizenship is and means.
German neonazis use stickers "American Indians did not control immigration. Now they live on reservations."
And that was years before they Syrian civil war or Putin's "special military operation" in Ukraine. Then it was mainly against Turks (These days even neonazis buy at the Turkish greengrocer. Probably the same 'problem' that Himmler noted that every German had 'one decent Jew' he did not want to get persecuted).
Berlin in the 18th century was close to immigrant majority (French Huguenots) and that was essential to the economy (Brandenburg was the 2nd most devastated region of the 30 Years War after Bohemia).
I have strong suspicions that I have Huguenots in the family tree myself.Did not help with learning French though :-( .
I see a hot debate, whether this will be called 'apeacement' or 'apiecement'.
(and whether Ghislaine Maxwell will be successfully nominated as Secretary of Whore after pardon and damages for suffering).
As for reparations, I would not be surprised in the least, if that became part of it (maybe even with a coerced 'admission of guilt' for the war on the part of Ukraine).
I am amazed by the number of people I have encountered over the last few months who said variations of “but Trump will eventially get/is getting impatient with Putin, so it looks like things are going to change”.
It's pretty human to expect things that you really, really want to see happen will indeed happen . And it's also all to easy to assume that others will do what you would expect anybody to do. Even when you know, if you stop and think about it, that the person isn't even remotely rational, let alone sensible.
So, we'd like to see Trump cease being Putin's patsy when it comes to Ukraine. And, given how Putin is behaving, any normal person would long since have gotten exasperated. So, easy to think any little glimmer in that direction is the beginning of a real change. No matter how many times it proves not to be.
Definitely true of Witkoff, and many other Trump appointees. But I am amazed by the number of people I have encountered over the last few months who said variations of "but Trump will eventially get/is getting impatient with Putin, so it looks like things are going to change". To me it has looked absolutely clear from the beginning that Trump's intention is essentially to give Putin whatever he wants, that he will throw Ukraine to the wolves, and that any little zigzags have been purely performative. There could be many explanations: that he is bought and paid for, that Putin has kompromat on him, that he hates Zelensky ever since the perfect phone call, or that he is at heart a weak and pathetic man who kowtows to those he sees as ruthless, strong and powerful. It could be a combination of any of these. But as for the bunch of clowns, dumb or not, if they know they are giving Trump what he really wants, it may not be their competence that is the problem.
I fault Obama for not acting on Crimea in 2014. But the behaviour of the Trump administration over Ukraine is a stain on America which, to paraphrase Trump, is probably the greatest ever seen.
It must be incredibly frustrating for Dmitriev. He keeps putting out ever more outrageous demands, in the hopes that Witkoff will say No, so he can blame the US for negotiations failing. But Witkoff keeps giving him everything he asks and more. Over and over. The draft plan differs from Russia's maximal demands only in giving Russia even more.
About all that's left is Russia demanding massive reparations from Ukraine. Watching this space....
Also, not quite a punk band, but The Great Heathen Army is an Amon Amarth album (and song) title - not punk, but rather viking themed melodic death metal.
CharlesWT - The UK’s foreign-born population was 4.2% in 1951, 8.3% in 2001, and 16% in 2021.
I'm not taking issue with you here, CharlesWT, but I am going to note, for the sake of information literacy, that the Wiki entry you cite has some problems with the data that bear scrutiny.
The 1951 and 2001 data come from one data source and the 2021 data from another. The first set counts "foreign born" population, and the last one counts "migrants." Those two things are defined in the sources that are being cited, but a closer look at those shows that "foreign born" and "migrant" are not at all the same things, and the way that the Wiki article is written, they never foreground any difference.
If you chase the source for the earlier dates, you will find that, for example, in 1971 about a third of the "foreign born" population came from families where one or both parents were born in the UK.
That would mean that for the purposes of the data from 1971, Boris Johnson would count as "foreign born," but had he been born in 2017, he would not have counted for the table because he would not be considered a "migrant," since his parents were only abroad in the US temporarily while his father was attending university there.
I suspect that there are a lot of incongruities and methodological problems in that article, but I don't expect that the average reader - even one with an undergraduate degree - would have the habits of mind to check for, or reflect on, the impacts of such problems on the conclusions being drawn from them.
This is why teaching information literacy is so challenging, and why people get impatient with academics. To paraphrase The Who, the simple things we see are all complicated, and most of us just want to get our washing done.
Substitute your lies for fact I can see right through your plastic mac I look all white, but my dad was black My fine looking suit is really made out of sack
I’ll bet that in the last 1000 years England has seen more immigration than in the previous 500,000,000 years.
Britain was almost entirely depopulated by the end of the last glacial maxima 22,000 years ago. All of Scotland and Ireland were under the ice. Southern England was inhospitable tundra. At least on a percentage basis, the immigration after the ice started to retreat was probably larger than the last 1,000 years.
Percentage wise, America saw way more immigration in the 1700s than in the 19th century. Also way more in the 19th century than in the 20th century. Certainly there were peaks and valleys. And the raw numbers climbed, but as a percentage of the (non-Native American) population? No.
I suspect that we also saw more in many decades of the 20th century than we have so far in either decade in the 21st century. The usual peaks and valleys may have impacted what we've seen this century so far. But by now, our population is just too big for the percentages to get that high.
On “An openish thread featuring the comedy stylings of Steve Witkoff”
Surely if American voters hated dishonour as much as all that, there would not be a second Trump presidency.
I'm not sure exactly what would be the focus of 'hating dishonour', but I don't think American voters, as a general rule, give a shit about what goes on outside of the borders, unless it is for the purposes of mythologizing, so the 2nd Trump dumpster fire is only marginally related to that.
"
As a Wall Street Journal editorial on Friday put it: “Mr. Trump may figure he can finally wash his hands of Ukraine if Europe and Ukraine reject his offer. He’s clearly sick of dealing with the war. But appeasing Mr. Putin would haunt the rest of his presidency. If Mr. Trump thinks American voters hate war, wait until he learns how much they hate dishonor. … A bad deal in Ukraine would broadcast to U.S. enemies that they can seize what they want with force or nuclear blackmail or by pressing on until America loses interest.”
Well, I hope the Wall Street Journal editorial is right about American voters, but I fear it is not. Surely if American voters hated dishonour as much as all that, there would not be a second Trump presidency. The piece from which I have taken that is in today's NYT:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/11/22/opinion/ukraine-russia-negotiations-trump-deal.html?unlocked_article_code=1.3E8.xN85.ecN93aJ-jZL7&smid=url-share
However, I do have some (tiny amount of) hope that if this kind of criticism is very widespread, along with all the signalling from Europe, Trump might (once again!) back slightly off from this kind of approach. I guess this is what's behind today's statement that this was not his final offer. But to follow that by saying if Zelensky refuses to accept the terms, “then he can continue to fight his little heart out.” makes me feel sick. The Chamberlain comparison makes sense; appeasing Putin has been Trump's consistent approach as POTUS in both his terms.
"
Any of Chrome, Firefox, or Safari should do it.
Also Edge, if you have a fairly recent release. Microsoft has been slow to support AVIF at the operating system level.
"
Now I just need to get the software to open them.
Any of Chrome, Firefox, or Safari should do it.
"
Yeah. I get warnings about the site being potentially unsafe. But I cheerfully downloaded the files anyway. Now I just need to get the software to open them.
"
firefox is very insistent that i not visit https://mcain6925.com/ordinary/demo1.avif
On “Shabana burns the cakes”
If you want it lj, here it is:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/11/opinion/dubai-migration-trump.html?unlocked_article_code=1.3E8.A3HK.Gd0uik9LLL9G&smid=url-share
On “An openish thread featuring the comedy stylings of Steve Witkoff”
For wjca, since it's an openish thread...
Status report on dewarping documents from photographs. I've finally settled on a camera (iPhone 17) and set up lighting, so I'm starting to take pictures seriously. Current state of the art for my dewarping software shown in these images. First one is a 24MP "original" taken with the iPhone. Second one is the dewarped output for it. I've settled on the .avif format as the best combination of quality, compression, and availability.
https://mcain6925.com/ordinary/demo1.avif
https://mcain6925.com/ordinary/demo2.avif
On “Shabana burns the cakes”
I read this NYT article
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/11/opinion/dubai-migration-trump.html
but didn't finish it and lost the page that had the gift link. Some pages suggest that Dubai is 92% 'immigrant' and the article had some discussion about a rethinking of what citizenship is and means.
"
German neonazis use stickers "American Indians did not control immigration. Now they live on reservations."
And that was years before they Syrian civil war or Putin's "special military operation" in Ukraine. Then it was mainly against Turks (These days even neonazis buy at the Turkish greengrocer. Probably the same 'problem' that Himmler noted that every German had 'one decent Jew' he did not want to get persecuted).
Berlin in the 18th century was close to immigrant majority (French Huguenots) and that was essential to the economy (Brandenburg was the 2nd most devastated region of the 30 Years War after Bohemia).
I have strong suspicions that I have Huguenots in the family tree myself.Did not help with learning French though :-( .
On “An openish thread featuring the comedy stylings of Steve Witkoff”
I see a hot debate, whether this will be called 'apeacement' or 'apiecement'.
(and whether Ghislaine Maxwell will be successfully nominated as Secretary of Whore after pardon and damages for suffering).
As for reparations, I would not be surprised in the least, if that became part of it (maybe even with a coerced 'admission of guilt' for the war on the part of Ukraine).
"
"There could be many explanations"
My best guess at this point is that he just likes Putin, in a kind of fanboi crush way.
Putin is doing it the way Trump wishes he could do it.
"
I am amazed by the number of people I have encountered over the last few months who said variations of “but Trump will eventially get/is getting impatient with Putin, so it looks like things are going to change”.
It's pretty human to expect things that you really, really want to see happen will indeed happen . And it's also all to easy to assume that others will do what you would expect anybody to do. Even when you know, if you stop and think about it, that the person isn't even remotely rational, let alone sensible.
So, we'd like to see Trump cease being Putin's patsy when it comes to Ukraine. And, given how Putin is behaving, any normal person would long since have gotten exasperated. So, easy to think any little glimmer in that direction is the beginning of a real change. No matter how many times it proves not to be.
"
What a fucking bunch of clowns.
Definitely true of Witkoff, and many other Trump appointees. But I am amazed by the number of people I have encountered over the last few months who said variations of "but Trump will eventially get/is getting impatient with Putin, so it looks like things are going to change". To me it has looked absolutely clear from the beginning that Trump's intention is essentially to give Putin whatever he wants, that he will throw Ukraine to the wolves, and that any little zigzags have been purely performative. There could be many explanations: that he is bought and paid for, that Putin has kompromat on him, that he hates Zelensky ever since the perfect phone call, or that he is at heart a weak and pathetic man who kowtows to those he sees as ruthless, strong and powerful. It could be a combination of any of these. But as for the bunch of clowns, dumb or not, if they know they are giving Trump what he really wants, it may not be their competence that is the problem.
I fault Obama for not acting on Crimea in 2014. But the behaviour of the Trump administration over Ukraine is a stain on America which, to paraphrase Trump, is probably the greatest ever seen.
"
It must be incredibly frustrating for Dmitriev. He keeps putting out ever more outrageous demands, in the hopes that Witkoff will say No, so he can blame the US for negotiations failing. But Witkoff keeps giving him everything he asks and more. Over and over. The draft plan differs from Russia's maximal demands only in giving Russia even more.
About all that's left is Russia demanding mas
sivereparations from Ukraine. Watching this space....On “Shabana burns the cakes”
London’s foreign-born population is 41%.
And the percentage of foreign born residents in New York City over the years would be what?
If you're going to cherry pick numbers, gotta expect folks here will notice.
"
Also, not quite a punk band, but The Great Heathen Army is an Amon Amarth album (and song) title - not punk, but rather viking themed melodic death metal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK4MbGyCSXU
"
CharlesWT - The UK’s foreign-born population was 4.2% in 1951, 8.3% in 2001, and 16% in 2021.
I'm not taking issue with you here, CharlesWT, but I am going to note, for the sake of information literacy, that the Wiki entry you cite has some problems with the data that bear scrutiny.
The 1951 and 2001 data come from one data source and the 2021 data from another. The first set counts "foreign born" population, and the last one counts "migrants." Those two things are defined in the sources that are being cited, but a closer look at those shows that "foreign born" and "migrant" are not at all the same things, and the way that the Wiki article is written, they never foreground any difference.
If you chase the source for the earlier dates, you will find that, for example, in 1971 about a third of the "foreign born" population came from families where one or both parents were born in the UK.
That would mean that for the purposes of the data from 1971, Boris Johnson would count as "foreign born," but had he been born in 2017, he would not have counted for the table because he would not be considered a "migrant," since his parents were only abroad in the US temporarily while his father was attending university there.
I suspect that there are a lot of incongruities and methodological problems in that article, but I don't expect that the average reader - even one with an undergraduate degree - would have the habits of mind to check for, or reflect on, the impacts of such problems on the conclusions being drawn from them.
This is why teaching information literacy is so challenging, and why people get impatient with academics. To paraphrase The Who, the simple things we see are all complicated, and most of us just want to get our washing done.
Substitute your lies for fact
I can see right through your plastic mac
I look all white, but my dad was black
My fine looking suit is really made out of sack
"
What is our current Open Thread? Where should one talk about the Russia-US 28 point plan giving Putin almost everything he wants?
"
The UK's foreign-born population was 4.2% in 1951, 8.3% in 2001, and 16% in 2021.
Foreign-born population of the United Kingdom
London's foreign-born population is 41%.
"
A percentage basis? You guys really know how to kill a joke.
"
I’ll bet that in the last 1000 years England has seen more immigration than in the previous 500,000,000 years.
Britain was almost entirely depopulated by the end of the last glacial maxima 22,000 years ago. All of Scotland and Ireland were under the ice. Southern England was inhospitable tundra. At least on a percentage basis, the immigration after the ice started to retreat was probably larger than the last 1,000 years.
"
Percentage wise, America saw way more immigration in the 1700s than in the 19th century. Also way more in the 19th century than in the 20th century. Certainly there were peaks and valleys. And the raw numbers climbed, but as a percentage of the (non-Native American) population? No.
I suspect that we also saw more in many decades of the 20th century than we have so far in either decade in the 21st century. The usual peaks and valleys may have impacted what we've seen this century so far. But by now, our population is just too big for the percentages to get that high.
"
I'll bet that in the last 1000 years England has seen more immigration than in the previous 500,000,000 years.
"
There was a ten-year period during the Blair government England had more immigration than during the previous thousand years.
How do you know? Before the 1905 Aliens Act there were effectively no restrictions on immigration.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.