If I'd known russell were responding on the doxxing thing and covering the same points I was making, I'd have saved the typing and the risk of further piling on bc.
Also, I just noticed that we can now edit our comments after posting them. Let us try our best to use these powers only for good.
Thank you for your thoughtful response! I'll try to reply briefly.
I think you are correct as regards the law. The severity of the offense depends on whether someone came through a federal entry point vs. just walking across the border somewhere, and also whether someone is trying to re-enter illegally after having been deported.
Thank you for the clarification and correction, I appreciate it.
First, we are on the same page as regards people with criminal histories or demonstrable gang affiliation. I would except folks whose "criminal history" is a moving violation, but certainly crimes against persons or property are legitimate grounds for deportation or refusal of entry.
I don't actually prefer the folks who are here without legal status to the 5 million waiting in line. If I understand the estimates of the size of the "no legal status" numbers, they actually include many of those 5 million - people waiting for an asylum ruling, people here under TPS, basically anyone who has not yet been granted permanent legal residency.
For folks who did straight-up sneak in or overstay their visa - people who are *not* in the pipeline - it's legitimate to deport them, or at least require them to justify their presence here on some legitimate basis (fear of being killed if they return, frex). But I also think we need to be realistic about what we can do without turning the country into a police state. Reagan offered amnesty, we've since had Dreamers, those are both programs intended to deal with the situation humanely and realistically. Don't know if they are appropriate to the current situation.
I personally would be fine with defining a structured path to residency for folks who have been here for some time - 5 years? pick a number - and who have no criminal record. Especially folks who are in families of mixed immigration status - right now we are deporting people who have kids here, and who have been here for years and years. That doesn't seem right, to me.
I'm curious to understand your point about the folks "waiting in line" a little more clearly. Are they "waiting in line" here in this country, i.e., their status is in process but not yet granted? Are they waiting in some other country for a request to immigrate to be granted? I want to understand how the presence of an undocumented person here harms them, or is unfair to them in some tangible way.
Purely from a practical point of view, the focus should be on people who are here with no legal status and who are making trouble. Criminals, gang members. And I agree that the DHS numbers are BS. My understanding, based on cites of ICE's own statistics, is that 80% of the people being held in the Burlington facility near me have no criminal record.
Lastly, I agree that if ICE folks didn't wear masks, they would be at risk of being doxed, and that there is potential for harm there. I would counter that *if they weren't acting as they are acting*, that risk would be significantly reduced. Cops, FBI, etc. generally don't find it necessary to wear masks. ICE's own behavior - their violence and total disregard for due process - is what creates, or at least exacerbates, that risk. They are lawless.
I agree that it's a hard problem, and that there is no perfect solution. But what we are doing right now is nuts. Not "nuts" as in "silly and amusing", but "nuts" as in harmful and destructive, not just to immigrants, but to all of us.
Due process applies to everyone, or else we are all at risk of losing it.
Tony P. - I’d like to know more about this “doxing”. I do not trust Kristi Noem’s statements about it any more than I trust her DHS 70% statistic. Let’s hear about a few actual cases.
Not meaning to come in here and force bc to engage and defend this while outnumbered. I do think it is important to note, though, that this particular scenario does not start with people on the left being upset that the Trump administration is enforcing the immigration laws and respond by doxxing ICE agents wholesale.
It starts with ICE being given arbitrary quotas and being sent out to grab people based on language and ethnicity, and detaining and deporting people without due process.
And even with that, the few people who have actually been doxxed (as opposed to those who are afraid of being doxxed - not for enforcing the law, but for being violent while pursuing these reprehensible tactics) only ended up getting doxxed because they were the ones caught being especially, shockingly violent on video while engaging in these reprehensible tactics.
Should the public's response here be to say that all ICE agents should be allowed to wear masks so they need not fear being identified, or should it be to say that ICE needs to stop these show raids and use their enforcement power only to go after the actual criminals in a way that does not violate their right to due process? And if we protest it should be both, which of the sides of that choice should be the one we give priority to?
Pro Bono - What we are doing to the planet really matters. What the US is doing matters a lot, because why should poorer countries restrain themselves if the US won’t.
There is that, and also the data suggests that the top 1% of the world are responsible for 2/3 of the warming measured since 1990, and we have over 900 billionaires in our country. China is next closest with 516, and only 3 other nation states have more than 100.
But then here is another shocker - to be in the top 1% worldwide, you need only to make $60,000 a year*, so I'd guess that most of us writing here are in that 1%.
*If we are talking income rather than wealth. Wealth is probably a better measure, but it's also a harder measure to come by.
Note that you can actually look up the Antifa group doing this on the web and see the actual posters they were distributing. I'm not going to link to that, for obvious reasons. But I take that as verification of what Noem is saying.
Arrest of a Santa Monica man for doxxing an ICE attorney:
No question that climate change is criticality important. What it is not is an issue which will move votes. At this point, political campaigns simply cannot be about educating voters about things that the ought to care about. It has to be about getting them in side for the next election.
God willing, we will get back to a place where we can focus on educating voters. Rather than having to focus on saving the country. But we aren't there now.
One issue which may not be a vote-winner but remains vitally important is climate change.
Atmospheric carbon dioxide levels are surging. The climate is warming. And the US president lectures the UN that the whole thing is a hoax, on the basis of exactly zero scientific understanding. He simple says what he and his voters want to believe. Perversely, he is going out of his way to increase emissions.
What we are doing to the planet really matters. What the US is doing matters a lot, because why should poorer countries restrain themselves if the US won't. It's horrible that the dangers of fascism are so acute that the threat to the climate is often not close to the forefront of our concerns.
if one genuinely wanted to attack the problem one would go after the employers, who have much more to lose than the illegal immigrants.
Fact is, nobody has done it. It's now peculiar to Trunp & Co., so it's not just about Trump being a big empliyer of illehals.
The law has been in place forever. But when I.C.E. (or its predecessors) make a raid on a workplace, somehow the employer never faces legal consequences. Even in cases where the employees really are illegally here (and not merely of the "wrong" racial or ethnic group).
I don't claim to know very much about illegal immigration to the USA, but it seems to me that if one genuinely wanted to attack the problem one would go after the employers, who have much more to lose than the illegal immigrants.
I'm going to guess that Trump hasn't done that. Tell me if I'm wrong.
bc: Doxing produced masks, which engender fear and are then criticized as fascist.
I'd like to know more about this "doxing". I do not trust Kristi Noem's statements about it any more than I trust her DHS 70% statistic. Let's hear about a few actual cases.
I am quite prepared to believe that there have been instances of people being publicly identified as ICE "agents", and I can easily believe those people were annoyed and embarrassed. But what else happened?
I appreciate the numbers view, and I agree that our country can accept a significant number of (legal) immigrants. How many is a policy decision and best made by Congress rather than having that decision made de facto by illegal immigrants.
To be clear, I am in favor of immigration and I am sympathetic to anyone trying to improve their life. I worked professionally in the immigration area years ago (pre-ICE). I too see the very real fear that is out there now. I saw that fear in downtown LA during the Reagan years around the time of amnesty and see it again today amongst the immigrant population when I visit the Pasadena area for work.
As for how this is being handled now, I agree with you to a significant degree. Depending on who you listen to, it either is or is not focusing on those we would all agree should be deported (criminal record, pending criminal charges, gang members, etc.). DHS says 70%. Other reports are much, much less. I'm strongly in favor of deporting anyone who entered without inspection with a conviction or criminal charges pending or gang association. I also think the resistance isn't helping calm things down and that to me is by design. Doxing produced masks, which engender fear and are then criticized as fascist. And on it goes.
As for the rest of those here without papers, how do you prefer those to the 5 million or so waiting in line? There are IMO far more who entered illegally already in the country. I think the numbers are underrepresented. See this MIT-Yale study before the Biden border surge estimating 22M in the country illegally (or more):
While that study is contested by the usual think tanks (such as Pew), it seems to open up the possibility that there are a lot more than commonly believed.
Being in the United States without some kind of legal status is a civil, not a criminal, violation.
Your statement doesn't distinguish between visa overstays and entry into the US without inspection. Unless something has recently changed, my understanding is:
If you sneak across the border without inspection, you are a criminal (misdemeanor).
If you overstay your student or tourist visa, you are typically not (civil).
But if you are deported after an overstay and enter again without approval, felony. Same for those denied entry and try to enter again.
Whether or not you or I like the law, that is what I believe it is. The vast majority of the debate centers on those trying to enter without inspection, not the overstays. It also includes those here under Biden's much-expanded rules for asylum and parole, seen as illegitimate by many. Either way, we are not talking about a speeding ticket.
I've just read hsh's link about the Young Republicans. Surprise, surprise. And also to see that J D Vance continues to distinguish himself. Jesus F Christ.
Kind of interesting that in the 20 years since this was originally posted, in the case of a pandemic we (the OECD countries) have developed the ability to formulate a vaccine and manufacture a billion doses in under a year.
You'd think Hitler would be a bright line. Wouldn't you? What the hell is funny about gas chambers?
My father, step-father, father-in-law, and uncle, all fought in WWII. Uncle didn't make it back. They would freaking puke to see this.
They think this crap is funny. "Edgy". It's all a joke, right? Owning the libs for fun and lols.
And now they're all gonna whine because they've been outed and some of them are losing their jobs.
I affirm the idea that we don't want to dehumanize other folks. That said, these folks dehumanize themselves.
And I understand that there are Good And Reasonable Conservatives, but there are a hell of a lot of folks like this. These are not "fringe" characters, they are leaders in the Young Republican movement. Leaders.
Good And Reasonable Conservatives, if you want to engage in civil and constructive dialog with your counterparties, you need to get people like this the hell out of your party and your movement. I know I sure as hell have nothing to say to them, and am not interested in anything they might want to say to me.
To borrow wonkie's language, they can fuck right off.
I can't make them go away. You - reasonable conservatives, wherever you are - can. Or at least you can try. They do not deserve a place in governance, in political leadership, or in public conversation.
If you want people to stop calling MAGAs and conservatives in general Nazis, STOP INDULGING THE NAZIS IN YOUR COMMUNITY. If you can't do that, the rest of us can't believe you when you say they "have no part" of your world. They do have a part of it, they are right there in plain sight.
...what justification is there for its presence anyway?
One possibility: there are two major global shipping choke points in the region (Hormuz and Mandeb). The US is the only country with enough military power projection to force them open in the event someone tries to close them. Having a staging point for large air transport efforts related to that seems like a necessity. But this is a very complicated question.
Ha, that's what comes of not looking at the papers (or anything else) till 6.30 pm*! Thanks hsh.
Now from me: on the issue of Biden's v Trump's records, I was going to snarkily ask bc what, as a lawyer, s/he thought about Trump's annexation of the entire (as near as he can) legal system and DOJ to go after his "enemies". I was going to contrast it with the prosecutions and convictions of Trump while Biden was POTUS, but lo, I don't have to. Here (from the Atlantic) is something today:
“what justification is there for its presence anyway?”
we're there to keep the region stable enough to keep the world's oil supply steady. if the supply of oil is interrupted, the entire world's economy will suffer; nobody will be immune.
that's why we need to find a better energy source than oil.
This seems like the best thread to mention the group texts of Young Republicans. In the spirit of wonkie's original subject, high-profile Democrats should be pointing this out to the non-MAGA electorate. This is the progeny of the beknighted Charlie Kirk, who was demonstrably a white Christian nationalist despite his superficial "civility."
This is who they are - by choice. Saying so is not othering. It is truth.
That number sounds like a lot, but if I follow it all correctly it includes folks who may not have been granted permanent residency but who are protected from deportation for any of a variety of reasons.
Those folks, who actually are trying to "come here the right way" according the the policies in place when they came, make up about 40% of the 14 million. A lot of the policies that grant them protection from deportation were instituted by Biden, and are being removed by Trump. So who knows what will happen to them.
Net/net, as your correction indicates (thank you!), we grant permanent legal residency - a green card, with permission to live and work here - to about one-third of one percent of the overall population.
We're not in danger of being replaced, or overwhelmed with sneaky illegal votes. There are places in the country that *are* stressed by the levels of immigration we see now - I live in one - but in most places even that is not an issue. Or at least is being managed effectively.
Trump doesn't like brown people. Miller doesn't like brown people. So they want to throw the brown people out. And they are hiring / have hired a bunch of out of control yahoos to make that happen.
"what justification is there for its presence anyway?"
At this point: inertia.
Half a century ago, when we were a big oil importer and the Saudis essentially controlled the price of oil worldwide, there were obvious economic reasons to be involved there. Plus, at that time, some humanitarian reasons to defend the only democracy in the region (Israel).
But now, we're a net oil exporter. We still import a lot, but on balance. And these days (yes, gradually over the intervening decades) Israel has ceased to be a shining example compared to its neighbors. Even though said neighbors are still pretty appalling.
In fact, from a domestic political perspective, the majority of American Jews are no longer solid Israel supporters. Netanyahu has made manifest for them just where Israel has descended to. All we need is a generation of politicians who don't personally remember the situation from 50-60 years ago.
Here in Japan, we generally use boiling water, fortunately, there is usually a hot pot for green tea. I was looking at Gemini and it says that undiluted vinegar also get them.
Call me crazy, but the US needs to get out of the ME - it has caused a lot of terrible misery there and besides what justification is there for its presence anyway?
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.
On “Let’s start calling a thug a thug”
If I'd known russell were responding on the doxxing thing and covering the same points I was making, I'd have saved the typing and the risk of further piling on bc.
Also, I just noticed that we can now edit our comments after posting them. Let us try our best to use these powers only for good.
"
Hello bc -
Thank you for your thoughtful response! I'll try to reply briefly.
I think you are correct as regards the law. The severity of the offense depends on whether someone came through a federal entry point vs. just walking across the border somewhere, and also whether someone is trying to re-enter illegally after having been deported.
Thank you for the clarification and correction, I appreciate it.
First, we are on the same page as regards people with criminal histories or demonstrable gang affiliation. I would except folks whose "criminal history" is a moving violation, but certainly crimes against persons or property are legitimate grounds for deportation or refusal of entry.
I don't actually prefer the folks who are here without legal status to the 5 million waiting in line. If I understand the estimates of the size of the "no legal status" numbers, they actually include many of those 5 million - people waiting for an asylum ruling, people here under TPS, basically anyone who has not yet been granted permanent legal residency.
For folks who did straight-up sneak in or overstay their visa - people who are *not* in the pipeline - it's legitimate to deport them, or at least require them to justify their presence here on some legitimate basis (fear of being killed if they return, frex). But I also think we need to be realistic about what we can do without turning the country into a police state. Reagan offered amnesty, we've since had Dreamers, those are both programs intended to deal with the situation humanely and realistically. Don't know if they are appropriate to the current situation.
I personally would be fine with defining a structured path to residency for folks who have been here for some time - 5 years? pick a number - and who have no criminal record. Especially folks who are in families of mixed immigration status - right now we are deporting people who have kids here, and who have been here for years and years. That doesn't seem right, to me.
I'm curious to understand your point about the folks "waiting in line" a little more clearly. Are they "waiting in line" here in this country, i.e., their status is in process but not yet granted? Are they waiting in some other country for a request to immigrate to be granted? I want to understand how the presence of an undocumented person here harms them, or is unfair to them in some tangible way.
Purely from a practical point of view, the focus should be on people who are here with no legal status and who are making trouble. Criminals, gang members. And I agree that the DHS numbers are BS. My understanding, based on cites of ICE's own statistics, is that 80% of the people being held in the Burlington facility near me have no criminal record.
Lastly, I agree that if ICE folks didn't wear masks, they would be at risk of being doxed, and that there is potential for harm there. I would counter that *if they weren't acting as they are acting*, that risk would be significantly reduced. Cops, FBI, etc. generally don't find it necessary to wear masks. ICE's own behavior - their violence and total disregard for due process - is what creates, or at least exacerbates, that risk. They are lawless.
I agree that it's a hard problem, and that there is no perfect solution. But what we are doing right now is nuts. Not "nuts" as in "silly and amusing", but "nuts" as in harmful and destructive, not just to immigrants, but to all of us.
Due process applies to everyone, or else we are all at risk of losing it.
"
Tony P. - I’d like to know more about this “doxing”. I do not trust Kristi Noem’s statements about it any more than I trust her DHS 70% statistic. Let’s hear about a few actual cases.
Not meaning to come in here and force bc to engage and defend this while outnumbered. I do think it is important to note, though, that this particular scenario does not start with people on the left being upset that the Trump administration is enforcing the immigration laws and respond by doxxing ICE agents wholesale.
It starts with ICE being given arbitrary quotas and being sent out to grab people based on language and ethnicity, and detaining and deporting people without due process.
And even with that, the few people who have actually been doxxed (as opposed to those who are afraid of being doxxed - not for enforcing the law, but for being violent while pursuing these reprehensible tactics) only ended up getting doxxed because they were the ones caught being especially, shockingly violent on video while engaging in these reprehensible tactics.
Should the public's response here be to say that all ICE agents should be allowed to wear masks so they need not fear being identified, or should it be to say that ICE needs to stop these show raids and use their enforcement power only to go after the actual criminals in a way that does not violate their right to due process? And if we protest it should be both, which of the sides of that choice should be the one we give priority to?
On “The Mother-in-law defense”
Pro Bono - What we are doing to the planet really matters. What the US is doing matters a lot, because why should poorer countries restrain themselves if the US won’t.
There is that, and also the data suggests that the top 1% of the world are responsible for 2/3 of the warming measured since 1990, and we have over 900 billionaires in our country. China is next closest with 516, and only 3 other nation states have more than 100.
But then here is another shocker - to be in the top 1% worldwide, you need only to make $60,000 a year*, so I'd guess that most of us writing here are in that 1%.
*If we are talking income rather than wealth. Wealth is probably a better measure, but it's also a harder measure to come by.
On “Let’s start calling a thug a thug”
TP:
Indictment for three women following an ICE agent home and livestreaming it:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-cdca/pr/federal-grand-jury-charges-three-women-following-ice-agent-home-work-and-livestreaming
DHS' announcement re Portland doxxing here:
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/07/11/anarchists-and-rioters-portland-illegally-dox-ice-officers-and-federal-law
Note that you can actually look up the Antifa group doing this on the web and see the actual posters they were distributing. I'm not going to link to that, for obvious reasons. But I take that as verification of what Noem is saying.
Arrest of a Santa Monica man for doxxing an ICE attorney:
https://smdp.com/news/crime/santa-monica-man-arrested-for-allegedly-doxxing-ice-attorney/
On “The Mother-in-law defense”
No question that climate change is criticality important. What it is not is an issue which will move votes. At this point, political campaigns simply cannot be about educating voters about things that the ought to care about. It has to be about getting them in side for the next election.
God willing, we will get back to a place where we can focus on educating voters. Rather than having to focus on saving the country. But we aren't there now.
"
One issue which may not be a vote-winner but remains vitally important is climate change.
Atmospheric carbon dioxide levels are surging. The climate is warming. And the US president lectures the UN that the whole thing is a hoax, on the basis of exactly zero scientific understanding. He simple says what he and his voters want to believe. Perversely, he is going out of his way to increase emissions.
What we are doing to the planet really matters. What the US is doing matters a lot, because why should poorer countries restrain themselves if the US won't. It's horrible that the dangers of fascism are so acute that the threat to the climate is often not close to the forefront of our concerns.
On “Let’s start calling a thug a thug”
if one genuinely wanted to attack the problem one would go after the employers, who have much more to lose than the illegal immigrants.
Fact is, nobody has done it. It's now peculiar to Trunp & Co., so it's not just about Trump being a big empliyer of illehals.
The law has been in place forever. But when I.C.E. (or its predecessors) make a raid on a workplace, somehow the employer never faces legal consequences. Even in cases where the employees really are illegally here (and not merely of the "wrong" racial or ethnic group).
"
I don't claim to know very much about illegal immigration to the USA, but it seems to me that if one genuinely wanted to attack the problem one would go after the employers, who have much more to lose than the illegal immigrants.
I'm going to guess that Trump hasn't done that. Tell me if I'm wrong.
"
bc: Doxing produced masks, which engender fear and are then criticized as fascist.
I'd like to know more about this "doxing". I do not trust Kristi Noem's statements about it any more than I trust her DHS 70% statistic. Let's hear about a few actual cases.
I am quite prepared to believe that there have been instances of people being publicly identified as ICE "agents", and I can easily believe those people were annoyed and embarrassed. But what else happened?
--TP
"
Russell:
I appreciate the numbers view, and I agree that our country can accept a significant number of (legal) immigrants. How many is a policy decision and best made by Congress rather than having that decision made de facto by illegal immigrants.
To be clear, I am in favor of immigration and I am sympathetic to anyone trying to improve their life. I worked professionally in the immigration area years ago (pre-ICE). I too see the very real fear that is out there now. I saw that fear in downtown LA during the Reagan years around the time of amnesty and see it again today amongst the immigrant population when I visit the Pasadena area for work.
As for how this is being handled now, I agree with you to a significant degree. Depending on who you listen to, it either is or is not focusing on those we would all agree should be deported (criminal record, pending criminal charges, gang members, etc.). DHS says 70%. Other reports are much, much less. I'm strongly in favor of deporting anyone who entered without inspection with a conviction or criminal charges pending or gang association. I also think the resistance isn't helping calm things down and that to me is by design. Doxing produced masks, which engender fear and are then criticized as fascist. And on it goes.
As for the rest of those here without papers, how do you prefer those to the 5 million or so waiting in line? There are IMO far more who entered illegally already in the country. I think the numbers are underrepresented. See this MIT-Yale study before the Biden border surge estimating 22M in the country illegally (or more):
https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/yale-study-finds-twice-as-many-undocumented-immigrants-as-previous-estimates
While that study is contested by the usual think tanks (such as Pew), it seems to open up the possibility that there are a lot more than commonly believed.
Being in the United States without some kind of legal status is a civil, not a criminal, violation.
Your statement doesn't distinguish between visa overstays and entry into the US without inspection. Unless something has recently changed, my understanding is:
If you sneak across the border without inspection, you are a criminal (misdemeanor).
If you overstay your student or tourist visa, you are typically not (civil).
But if you are deported after an overstay and enter again without approval, felony. Same for those denied entry and try to enter again.
Whether or not you or I like the law, that is what I believe it is. The vast majority of the debate centers on those trying to enter without inspection, not the overstays. It also includes those here under Biden's much-expanded rules for asylum and parole, seen as illegitimate by many. Either way, we are not talking about a speeding ticket.
"
I've just read hsh's link about the Young Republicans. Surprise, surprise. And also to see that J D Vance continues to distinguish himself. Jesus F Christ.
On “From the archive: hilzoy on Avian Flu (9 Oct 2005)”
Kind of interesting that in the 20 years since this was originally posted, in the case of a pandemic we (the OECD countries) have developed the ability to formulate a vaccine and manufacture a billion doses in under a year.
On “Let’s start calling a thug a thug”
the group texts of Young Republicans.
You'd think Hitler would be a bright line. Wouldn't you? What the hell is funny about gas chambers?
My father, step-father, father-in-law, and uncle, all fought in WWII. Uncle didn't make it back. They would freaking puke to see this.
They think this crap is funny. "Edgy". It's all a joke, right? Owning the libs for fun and lols.
And now they're all gonna whine because they've been outed and some of them are losing their jobs.
I affirm the idea that we don't want to dehumanize other folks. That said, these folks dehumanize themselves.
And I understand that there are Good And Reasonable Conservatives, but there are a hell of a lot of folks like this. These are not "fringe" characters, they are leaders in the Young Republican movement. Leaders.
Good And Reasonable Conservatives, if you want to engage in civil and constructive dialog with your counterparties, you need to get people like this the hell out of your party and your movement. I know I sure as hell have nothing to say to them, and am not interested in anything they might want to say to me.
To borrow wonkie's language, they can fuck right off.
I can't make them go away. You - reasonable conservatives, wherever you are - can. Or at least you can try. They do not deserve a place in governance, in political leadership, or in public conversation.
If you want people to stop calling MAGAs and conservatives in general Nazis, STOP INDULGING THE NAZIS IN YOUR COMMUNITY. If you can't do that, the rest of us can't believe you when you say they "have no part" of your world. They do have a part of it, they are right there in plain sight.
On “The Qatar that plays like butter”
...what justification is there for its presence anyway?
One possibility: there are two major global shipping choke points in the region (Hormuz and Mandeb). The US is the only country with enough military power projection to force them open in the event someone tries to close them. Having a staging point for large air transport efforts related to that seems like a necessity. But this is a very complicated question.
On “Let’s start calling a thug a thug”
Ha, that's what comes of not looking at the papers (or anything else) till 6.30 pm*! Thanks hsh.
Now from me: on the issue of Biden's v Trump's records, I was going to snarkily ask bc what, as a lawyer, s/he thought about Trump's annexation of the entire (as near as he can) legal system and DOJ to go after his "enemies". I was going to contrast it with the prosecutions and convictions of Trump while Biden was POTUS, but lo, I don't have to. Here (from the Atlantic) is something today:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/10/trump-political-prosecution-democrats/684556/?gift=cx0iluuWx4Cg7JjlT8ugCThgNr42oHPKHeuYkIOS1gc&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
I haven't actually read it yet*, but from a brief skim it looks like they do a decent job....
"
Here's one from your side of the pond, GftNC.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/15/young-republicans-racist-group-chat-messages-leaked
On “The Qatar that plays like butter”
“what justification is there for its presence anyway?”
we're there to keep the region stable enough to keep the world's oil supply steady. if the supply of oil is interrupted, the entire world's economy will suffer; nobody will be immune.
that's why we need to find a better energy source than oil.
On “Let’s start calling a thug a thug”
hsh, do you have a link?
"
This seems like the best thread to mention the group texts of Young Republicans. In the spirit of wonkie's original subject, high-profile Democrats should be pointing this out to the non-MAGA electorate. This is the progeny of the beknighted Charlie Kirk, who was demonstrably a white Christian nationalist despite his superficial "civility."
This is who they are - by choice. Saying so is not othering. It is truth.
"
I think that should be 0.3% (1 million per 340 million)
Argh. Yes, you are correct!
The 3% is the number of undocumented aliens in the US - in recent years somewhere around 11+ million, growing to about 14 million now.
https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2025/08/21/u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-population-reached-a-record-14-million-in-2023/
That number sounds like a lot, but if I follow it all correctly it includes folks who may not have been granted permanent residency but who are protected from deportation for any of a variety of reasons.
Those folks, who actually are trying to "come here the right way" according the the policies in place when they came, make up about 40% of the 14 million. A lot of the policies that grant them protection from deportation were instituted by Biden, and are being removed by Trump. So who knows what will happen to them.
Net/net, as your correction indicates (thank you!), we grant permanent legal residency - a green card, with permission to live and work here - to about one-third of one percent of the overall population.
We're not in danger of being replaced, or overwhelmed with sneaky illegal votes. There are places in the country that *are* stressed by the levels of immigration we see now - I live in one - but in most places even that is not an issue. Or at least is being managed effectively.
Trump doesn't like brown people. Miller doesn't like brown people. So they want to throw the brown people out. And they are hiring / have hired a bunch of out of control yahoos to make that happen.
That's where we are at.
On “The Qatar that plays like butter”
"what justification is there for its presence anyway?"
At this point: inertia.
Half a century ago, when we were a big oil importer and the Saudis essentially controlled the price of oil worldwide, there were obvious economic reasons to be involved there. Plus, at that time, some humanitarian reasons to defend the only democracy in the region (Israel).
But now, we're a net oil exporter. We still import a lot, but on balance. And these days (yes, gradually over the intervening decades) Israel has ceased to be a shining example compared to its neighbors. Even though said neighbors are still pretty appalling.
In fact, from a domestic political perspective, the majority of American Jews are no longer solid Israel supporters. Netanyahu has made manifest for them just where Israel has descended to. All we need is a generation of politicians who don't personally remember the situation from 50-60 years ago.
On “Bathtub Bug is Dead”
Here in Japan, we generally use boiling water, fortunately, there is usually a hot pot for green tea. I was looking at Gemini and it says that undiluted vinegar also get them.
On “Let’s start calling a thug a thug”
But it’s about 3% of the population.
I think that should be 0.3% (1 million per 340 million).
Well, still better than the billions of illegals and illegal votes in California alone that His Orangeness used to rant about. ;-)
On “The Qatar that plays like butter”
Call me crazy, but the US needs to get out of the ME - it has caused a lot of terrible misery there and besides what justification is there for its presence anyway?
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