As a point of contrast, Germany post WWII was able to move past Naziism – to not continually be engaged in arguments about it (I think – right Helmut?) – by owning it, recognizing it as toxic and a point of shame, and making explicit choices to reject it. Until AfD I guess.
a) no one in 1945 could come up with the idea that Germany had not totally lost (unlike 1918 when all fronts were still outside the Reich's borders and the population did not know that the Western allies would completely overrun them in the spring).
b) The Allies (in both West and East) allowed the broad majority of Nazis to get off lightly while at the same time making clear that this would change should they try to revive the Reich. And they kept that ultimate control long enough for everyone to get used to the new and improved democracy (which was accompanied by the 'economic miracle', giving it a huge boost).
c) it took decades (until the late 60ies) and a new generation to really come to terms with the true evil of Nazism. But (see above) the country was provided that time and was protected from anything like the Lost Cause poison.
Maybe, if Sherman had gotten his way and reconstruction had not ended by probably the dirtiest of all cow trades in US history (Andrew Johnson making a deal with the South to save his hide), there could have been something similar in the US.
Personally I think that the AfD is to a large degree a result of the fake enforced anti-fascism of the GDR. Botching the reconstruction of the East after the reunification (a good deal of disaster capitalism happened there plus - at least perceived - large scale carpetbaggery) gave it fertilizer. And now the weed grows all over the country, having surpassed a critical mass. No idea where it will end. Imo most adherents have not lived through the actual GDR (let alone the 3rd Reich) and got infected by a certain made-up nostalgia with no personal experience what an authoritarian regime actually looks and feels like.
Look at how the majority of the most geographically racially segregated cities in the US are Northern – Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis,…
The Black population in all of those arrived as part of the two Great Migrations between 1910 and 1970. Millions of Black people moved out of the South looking for opportunities in the growing industrial cities in northern states. Unsurprisingly, they established neighborhoods and communities of their own. The patterns set then continue today.
When I was in high school I poked through some of the historical patterns in Omaha, NE. Successive waves of immigration each started in South Omaha, centered on the large stockyards: Irish, Black, Italian, and Central/Eastern Europeans. As second- and third-generation kids left that area, they scattered all over Omaha. Except Blacks, who stuck together in the Near North Side.
by this point, no decent person would sign up to be anywhere near Trump. working for him means you run the risk of destroying your career by either having to lie for him or by getting a face full of MAGA hatred by refusing to lie for him.
that leaves utter idiots and cynical grifters who think they can ride the Fox/MAGA gravy train for the rest of their careers.
russell - But the whole country is complicit in that history, and I think the whole country participates in a refusal to come to terms with it in an honest way.
Look at how the majority of the most geographically racially segregated cities in the US are Northern - Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis,...
The comment in the podcast that most connected with me was Bouelle's statement about it not just being about the South as a geographic area, specifically. I live in blue part of blue MA, and the whole giant American and/or Confederate flag flying off the back of a pickup with Eric Church or similar blasting is all over the place here.
Head out into Worcester or Franklin county, even more so.
Cross the border into southern NH, even more so.
What thinking lately about the whole moment we're in, and have been in since probably Reagan, is that this country has never successfully come to terms with the negative or darker side of our history. There is a lot that is negative in our history - violent, genocidal, explicitly and thoroughly racist. And we've never really found a way to come to terms with it.
So we end up with these weird overcompensating mythologies about American exceptionalism - how special and wonderful and indispensable we are.
And the people who do try to call it out are accused of "hating America". And some of them seem caught up in our darker corners, like they themselves can't let go of it or move past it.
And a lot of the really toxic shit has never really gone away. One of the remarkable things to me about the last 40 years or so is the degree to which it's become OK again to be an unapologetic racist. Or at least a "scientifically based" racist, see also the Bell Curve crap.
Or an unapologetic misogynist, or at least a proponent of the idea that men are somehow supposed to be the bosses. See also Charlie Kirk. Andrew Tate, who is clearly one sick bastard, has over 10 million followers.
I think this ends up - as Cottem points out - being "shunted off" onto the South because that region has the most overt history of, specifically, chattel slavery. The Confederacy was an explicit attempt to establish a state based on the doctrine of white supremacy and the legitimacy of black slavery. It's an obvious vector for the worst in our history. And, that is an obvious source for resentment on the part of the folks who live there.
But the whole country is complicit in that history, and I think the whole country participates in a refusal to come to terms with it in an honest way.
As a point of contrast, Germany post WWII was able to move past Naziism - to not continually be engaged in arguments about it (I think - right Helmut?) - by owning it, recognizing it as toxic and a point of shame, and making explicit choices to reject it. Until AfD I guess.
And I think the way Trump fits into this is that his own personal pathology mirrors that of the nation perfectly.
The extent to which these folks seem to have mush for brains ... is astounding.
That was my first thought also. It's a Trump thing - to be willing to do what it takes to work for him you have to be stupid, in advanced cognitive decline, or hoping for get rich or powerful from it.
Since this is a music thread:
Is someone here able to transcribe the lyrics of this song for me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJgDp5zF4s0
I only get disconnected fragments and the auto captions produce mostly rubbish.
Opening fire early and with dreadful aim, a shameful display of incompetence [OK, just the usual far left extremist hate speech against the prime paladins of His most serene Orangeness].
On the record: I wish them facial necrotizing fasciitis (non-lethal but beyond cosmetic surgery to undo), not getting fragged.
Remember: It is perfidy to quote GOPsters verbatim and a felony to provide audio or video proof when the quotes get challenged. That includes public speeches made to an audience of millions.
The extent to which these folks seem to have mush for brains (to phrase it politely) is astounding. In this particular instance, it makes me think that all that's required to get thru law school and pass the bar exam is a good memory. No actual cognitive ability necessary.
That wasn't previously my view, for all that I have a somewhat jaundiced view of some lawyers. But the ones who work for Trump, personally or as his appointees in the Department of Justice, are not only ethically challenged but, in the evidence, dumb as rocks besides. No offense intended to any rocks in the audience.
Pro Bono's quote reminds me that the inner circle of George Bush was dubbed the 'Mayberry Machiavellis' (and Gemini tells me it was not by a democrat, but by a former White House staffer under Bush)
Just an ancillary observation, in hindsight, it is almost overdetermined that the first Black president had to have a white mother and be from an exotic locale like Hawai'i. One could claim that his Chicago stint was important, but I think it was more important that he wasn't from a traditional place we might imagine a black candidate coming from. I don't think it wrecked Harris' chances that she went to a HBCU, but it is hard to imagine a male candidate graduating from Howard or some other HBCU.
Io spero, e lo sperar cresce ‘l tormento:
io piango, e il pianger ciba il lasso core:
io rido, e el rider mio non passa drento:
io ardo, e l’arsion non par di fore.
God, what a fascinating story. I'd never heard it before - the most they might have said in school (high school) was that Charles V was "a bit erratic". Wonderful illuminations too, if that is what they are.
wj - (Especially those who didn’t see it coming, and so failedto plant something else this year. Too late now to do anything but plow the crop under as fertalizer for next year.)
Right about now those farmers are also starting to realize that there is no way to plan for what to plant next year, because there is no telling what The Ancient Orange One is going to decide to add to the tariff pile as his next tantrum negotiating tactic.
You can't plan a year out when the yahoo in charge keeps blowing stuff up to keep his enemies - the farmers' customers - off-balance.
They could plow it all under and try to grow carbon, but TAOO has blown up climate subsidies as well.
We're talking about the difference between herding cats and making anxious dogs bark.
The Dems, unlike the GOP, have to bring in the dogs without upsetting the cats and making them scatter. It's a harder set of victory conditions.
First, though, they have to start talking to people in rural areas, listening to their need, and finding language that connects with those people showing that they are both hearing what was said, and responding with an approach that doesn't throw any of their urban constituencies under the bus. The Dems need to find common ground for a broad, grassroots solution.
So yeah, send the consultants to Mars and put Walz in charge of listening.
And in other news - I found this Bluesky thread (via BJ) that explains how the Marines managed to hit a CHP motorcycle with shrapnel while the CHP closed down I-5 to let Pete Dog and Couchy posture and pretend to be manly warrior men:
Do that for 3 or 4 or 5 election cycles. They’ll lose a lot, and spend a lot of money on doing so. And they’ll win some. And over time, they’ll win more.
I wonder if part if the problem is that, every 4 years, the party sees a Presidential candidate upending ongoing programs in order to do things their way. And it works for them, because they end up outspending the DNC by a substantial amount.
To get something like this in place is going to require changing where (organizationally) money gets raised and allocated. From candidate-centeic to party-centric. That, in turn, will require changing the incentives for donors. Not sure how you do that.
I notice that Trump is now demanding that the Chinese resume buying soybeans from the US. One suspects that he discovered that Midwestern farmers are seriously upset to have a major market snatched out from under them. (Especially those who didn't see it coming, and so failedto plant something else this year. Too late now to do anything but plow the crop under as fertalizer for next year.)
He seems oblivious to the fact that the Chinese have found alternative suppliers. Which is to say, they don't need to buy from us. As opposed to, say, refined rare earths, for which we (and, for that matter the rest of the world) have no alternative sources of supply.
We could develop them, of course -- "rare earths" aren't particularly rare; just challenging to separate from each other. It would just take 5-10 years, even assuming zero regulatory constraints (i.e. no environmental impact reports, no planning permissions, etc.). Can't expect Trump to grasp that, of course.
I could easily see the Chinese playing hardball on this. If only to show the wannabe his place. Hey, it keeps working for Putin, so why not?
The consultants will advise: "hire more consultants".
But it would be better for the D's to load the consultants on the B-Ark and send them to Mars to work their magic for Musk.
Reduce/remove TV ads, maybe more radio presence (to the extent it's possible with consolidation). Radio interviews and call-ins? Cheap.
Setting up boots-on-the-ground costs money, but I would not be surprised if it's less than what is saved by eliminating consultants and TV ads. That's less $$$ to be found, and less kowtowing to rich donors, which just causes problems.
My main criticism of the (D)’s over the last, say, 40 years is that they’ve neglected the areas that aren’t what they see as their places of strength. Rural areas, much of the south, much of the mountain west, to some degree the industrial midwest.
The two big political geography stories of the last 35 years are the huge swing from blue to red in the Midwest, and the corresponding swing from red to blue in the West. The 8-state Mountain West now has one more blue US Senator than the 13-state Midwest. The entire 13-state West has nine more than the Midwest. 35 years ago -- 1990 -- Republicans in California were competitive: legislative seats at the state and national level were close to equally divided, and that year Feinstein lost the election for governor.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.
On “The South shall writhe again”
As a point of contrast, Germany post WWII was able to move past Naziism – to not continually be engaged in arguments about it (I think – right Helmut?) – by owning it, recognizing it as toxic and a point of shame, and making explicit choices to reject it. Until AfD I guess.
a) no one in 1945 could come up with the idea that Germany had not totally lost (unlike 1918 when all fronts were still outside the Reich's borders and the population did not know that the Western allies would completely overrun them in the spring).
b) The Allies (in both West and East) allowed the broad majority of Nazis to get off lightly while at the same time making clear that this would change should they try to revive the Reich. And they kept that ultimate control long enough for everyone to get used to the new and improved democracy (which was accompanied by the 'economic miracle', giving it a huge boost).
c) it took decades (until the late 60ies) and a new generation to really come to terms with the true evil of Nazism. But (see above) the country was provided that time and was protected from anything like the Lost Cause poison.
Maybe, if Sherman had gotten his way and reconstruction had not ended by probably the dirtiest of all cow trades in US history (Andrew Johnson making a deal with the South to save his hide), there could have been something similar in the US.
Personally I think that the AfD is to a large degree a result of the fake enforced anti-fascism of the GDR. Botching the reconstruction of the East after the reunification (a good deal of disaster capitalism happened there plus - at least perceived - large scale carpetbaggery) gave it fertilizer. And now the weed grows all over the country, having surpassed a critical mass. No idea where it will end. Imo most adherents have not lived through the actual GDR (let alone the 3rd Reich) and got infected by a certain made-up nostalgia with no personal experience what an authoritarian regime actually looks and feels like.
"
Look at how the majority of the most geographically racially segregated cities in the US are Northern – Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis,…
The Black population in all of those arrived as part of the two Great Migrations between 1910 and 1970. Millions of Black people moved out of the South looking for opportunities in the growing industrial cities in northern states. Unsurprisingly, they established neighborhoods and communities of their own. The patterns set then continue today.
When I was in high school I poked through some of the historical patterns in Omaha, NE. Successive waves of immigration each started in South Omaha, centered on the large stockyards: Irish, Black, Italian, and Central/Eastern Europeans. As second- and third-generation kids left that area, they scattered all over Omaha. Except Blacks, who stuck together in the Near North Side.
On “There have to be clowns”
by this point, no decent person would sign up to be anywhere near Trump. working for him means you run the risk of destroying your career by either having to lie for him or by getting a face full of MAGA hatred by refusing to lie for him.
that leaves utter idiots and cynical grifters who think they can ride the Fox/MAGA gravy train for the rest of their careers.
On “The South shall writhe again”
russell - But the whole country is complicit in that history, and I think the whole country participates in a refusal to come to terms with it in an honest way.
Look at how the majority of the most geographically racially segregated cities in the US are Northern - Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis,...
"
The comment in the podcast that most connected with me was Bouelle's statement about it not just being about the South as a geographic area, specifically. I live in blue part of blue MA, and the whole giant American and/or Confederate flag flying off the back of a pickup with Eric Church or similar blasting is all over the place here.
Head out into Worcester or Franklin county, even more so.
Cross the border into southern NH, even more so.
What thinking lately about the whole moment we're in, and have been in since probably Reagan, is that this country has never successfully come to terms with the negative or darker side of our history. There is a lot that is negative in our history - violent, genocidal, explicitly and thoroughly racist. And we've never really found a way to come to terms with it.
So we end up with these weird overcompensating mythologies about American exceptionalism - how special and wonderful and indispensable we are.
And the people who do try to call it out are accused of "hating America". And some of them seem caught up in our darker corners, like they themselves can't let go of it or move past it.
And a lot of the really toxic shit has never really gone away. One of the remarkable things to me about the last 40 years or so is the degree to which it's become OK again to be an unapologetic racist. Or at least a "scientifically based" racist, see also the Bell Curve crap.
Or an unapologetic misogynist, or at least a proponent of the idea that men are somehow supposed to be the bosses. See also Charlie Kirk. Andrew Tate, who is clearly one sick bastard, has over 10 million followers.
I think this ends up - as Cottem points out - being "shunted off" onto the South because that region has the most overt history of, specifically, chattel slavery. The Confederacy was an explicit attempt to establish a state based on the doctrine of white supremacy and the legitimacy of black slavery. It's an obvious vector for the worst in our history. And, that is an obvious source for resentment on the part of the folks who live there.
But the whole country is complicit in that history, and I think the whole country participates in a refusal to come to terms with it in an honest way.
As a point of contrast, Germany post WWII was able to move past Naziism - to not continually be engaged in arguments about it (I think - right Helmut?) - by owning it, recognizing it as toxic and a point of shame, and making explicit choices to reject it. Until AfD I guess.
And I think the way Trump fits into this is that his own personal pathology mirrors that of the nation perfectly.
On “There have to be clowns”
They all float down here.
On “Weekend music thread #02 Bad Bunny”
Thank you, lj.
Let's see whether the last few gaps can be closed still.
"
Hartmut, a best guess
====
In [Venice]
Rollers [ahead]
It's so full of fun
While you roll, you feel the groove
Such a sport that makes you move
Grandpa
and mama too
Freaks are all the same
police chief and businessman
They are rolling
They are rolling
to the holy land
Roll
Roll
Roll on baby roll x2
skating here in the rolling disco
Lights are blinking wild
exotic clothes and bathing suits
skintight is a style
repeat chorus
Mama's rolling with a baby on her back
Just moving like the wind
headphones upon her ears
full of power
full of power
There's a crazy [??]
repeat chorus
On “Bal des Ardents”
Good heavens, Pro Bono, I very much hope that is not a description of your own state of mind!
On “There have to be clowns”
The extent to which these folks seem to have mush for brains ... is astounding.
That was my first thought also. It's a Trump thing - to be willing to do what it takes to work for him you have to be stupid, in advanced cognitive decline, or hoping for get rich or powerful from it.
On “Weekend music thread #02 Bad Bunny”
Since this is a music thread:
Is someone here able to transcribe the lyrics of this song for me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJgDp5zF4s0
I only get disconnected fragments and the auto captions produce mostly rubbish.
On “Politics thread”
Opening fire early and with dreadful aim, a shameful display of incompetence [OK, just the usual far left extremist hate speech against the prime paladins of His most serene Orangeness].
On the record: I wish them facial necrotizing fasciitis (non-lethal but beyond cosmetic surgery to undo), not getting fragged.
On “There have to be clowns”
Remember: It is perfidy to quote GOPsters verbatim and a felony to provide audio or video proof when the quotes get challenged. That includes public speeches made to an audience of millions.
"
The extent to which these folks seem to have mush for brains (to phrase it politely) is astounding. In this particular instance, it makes me think that all that's required to get thru law school and pass the bar exam is a good memory. No actual cognitive ability necessary.
That wasn't previously my view, for all that I have a somewhat jaundiced view of some lawyers. But the ones who work for Trump, personally or as his appointees in the Department of Justice, are not only ethically challenged but, in the evidence, dumb as rocks besides. No offense intended to any rocks in the audience.
On “Bal des Ardents”
Pro Bono's quote reminds me that the inner circle of George Bush was dubbed the 'Mayberry Machiavellis' (and Gemini tells me it was not by a democrat, but by a former White House staffer under Bush)
On “The South shall writhe again”
Just an ancillary observation, in hindsight, it is almost overdetermined that the first Black president had to have a white mother and be from an exotic locale like Hawai'i. One could claim that his Chicago stint was important, but I think it was more important that he wasn't from a traditional place we might imagine a black candidate coming from. I don't think it wrecked Harris' chances that she went to a HBCU, but it is hard to imagine a male candidate graduating from Howard or some other HBCU.
On “Bal des Ardents”
Io spero, e lo sperar cresce ‘l tormento:
io piango, e il pianger ciba il lasso core:
io rido, e el rider mio non passa drento:
io ardo, e l’arsion non par di fore.
"
God, what a fascinating story. I'd never heard it before - the most they might have said in school (high school) was that Charles V was "a bit erratic". Wonderful illuminations too, if that is what they are.
On “The South shall writhe again”
wj - (Especially those who didn’t see it coming, and so failedto plant something else this year. Too late now to do anything but plow the crop under as fertalizer for next year.)
Right about now those farmers are also starting to realize that there is no way to plan for what to plant next year, because there is no telling what The Ancient Orange One is going to decide to add to the tariff pile as his next
tantrumnegotiating tactic.You can't plan a year out when the yahoo in charge keeps blowing stuff up to keep his enemies - the farmers' customers - off-balance.
They could plow it all under and try to grow carbon, but TAOO has blown up climate subsidies as well.
Screwed.
On “Politics thread”
We're talking about the difference between herding cats and making anxious dogs bark.
The Dems, unlike the GOP, have to bring in the dogs without upsetting the cats and making them scatter. It's a harder set of victory conditions.
First, though, they have to start talking to people in rural areas, listening to their need, and finding language that connects with those people showing that they are both hearing what was said, and responding with an approach that doesn't throw any of their urban constituencies under the bus. The Dems need to find common ground for a broad, grassroots solution.
So yeah, send the consultants to Mars and put Walz in charge of listening.
And in other news - I found this Bluesky thread (via BJ) that explains how the Marines managed to hit a CHP motorcycle with shrapnel while the CHP closed down I-5 to let Pete Dog and Couchy posture and pretend to be manly warrior men:
https://bsky.app/profile/bafriedman.bsky.social/post/3m3lh3t342c2z
I'm sure some poor grunt is hating life right now, but whoever in the brass okayed this pointless bit of spectacle is the one who should be shunned.
Not that any of that is going to rouse the Ancient Orange One from his eldritch slumber.
MAGA - Make Abominable Gods Awaken.
On “Weekend music thread #02 Bad Bunny”
A little late, but this Daily Show explainer on Reggaeton is good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rdNWZXFREA
On “Politics thread”
Do that for 3 or 4 or 5 election cycles. They’ll lose a lot, and spend a lot of money on doing so. And they’ll win some. And over time, they’ll win more.
I wonder if part if the problem is that, every 4 years, the party sees a Presidential candidate upending ongoing programs in order to do things their way. And it works for them, because they end up outspending the DNC by a substantial amount.
To get something like this in place is going to require changing where (organizationally) money gets raised and allocated. From candidate-centeic to party-centric. That, in turn, will require changing the incentives for donors. Not sure how you do that.
On “The South shall writhe again”
I notice that Trump is now demanding that the Chinese resume buying soybeans from the US. One suspects that he discovered that Midwestern farmers are seriously upset to have a major market snatched out from under them. (Especially those who didn't see it coming, and so failedto plant something else this year. Too late now to do anything but plow the crop under as fertalizer for next year.)
He seems oblivious to the fact that the Chinese have found alternative suppliers. Which is to say, they don't need to buy from us. As opposed to, say, refined rare earths, for which we (and, for that matter the rest of the world) have no alternative sources of supply.
We could develop them, of course -- "rare earths" aren't particularly rare; just challenging to separate from each other. It would just take 5-10 years, even assuming zero regulatory constraints (i.e. no environmental impact reports, no planning permissions, etc.). Can't expect Trump to grasp that, of course.
I could easily see the Chinese playing hardball on this. If only to show the wannabe his place. Hey, it keeps working for Putin, so why not?
On “Politics thread”
The consultants will advise: "hire more consultants".
But it would be better for the D's to load the consultants on the B-Ark and send them to Mars to work their magic for Musk.
Reduce/remove TV ads, maybe more radio presence (to the extent it's possible with consolidation). Radio interviews and call-ins? Cheap.
Setting up boots-on-the-ground costs money, but I would not be surprised if it's less than what is saved by eliminating consultants and TV ads. That's less $$$ to be found, and less kowtowing to rich donors, which just causes problems.
"
My main criticism of the (D)’s over the last, say, 40 years is that they’ve neglected the areas that aren’t what they see as their places of strength. Rural areas, much of the south, much of the mountain west, to some degree the industrial midwest.
The two big political geography stories of the last 35 years are the huge swing from blue to red in the Midwest, and the corresponding swing from red to blue in the West. The 8-state Mountain West now has one more blue US Senator than the 13-state Midwest. The entire 13-state West has nine more than the Midwest. 35 years ago -- 1990 -- Republicans in California were competitive: legislative seats at the state and national level were close to equally divided, and that year Feinstein lost the election for governor.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.