Damn. You have my deepest sympathy, cleek. I wish your wife the best, knowing that even the best is still a torment in these situations. Courage to you both.
--TP
Seriously? I doubt you will find a single official, in any sanctuary city or county or state, who would have any problem at all at all with those convicted of serious crimes being picked up and deported.
I am at a loss here. This is a central issue. Minnesota DOC (state prisons) was cooperating and honoring ICE detainers once a criminal’s sentence is done. Some counties and cities (e.g. Hennepin County and Minneapolis) were not. They release them into the public sphere rather than cooperate. Now the AG (Keith Ellison) doubled down, issuing an opinion that honoring detainers violates Minnesota law, even when there is an agreement with the feds (287(g) agreements). I’m not clear if the DOC’s cooperation will continue. If I’m wrong, I’m all ears. But Hennepin County ignored 2,000 detainers since Trump took office:
The issue isn’t just convicted. Those that have been arrested are a problem too. I get that a city, county or state would want to see justice for the victims and prosecute illegal aliens who commit serious crimes. But there is no good reason an illegal alien credibly accused of serious crimes should be let loose without coordination with the feds, IMO. Look at German Llangari, the illegal alien that killed Victoria Harwell in the twin cities (vehicular homicide). ICE issued a detainer and Minneapolis released him twice, ignoring the detainer. He was a fugitive after the first release. ICE had to track him down without cooperation and did so and deported him. If Minneapolis would cooperate, Minneapolis could have had its conviction, Llangari would have paid his price, and then he would have been deported. Minneapolis leaves ICE little choice.
** Far more than the number (citizens and non-citizens alike) who have simply been murdered.
I don’t know if anyone can be “simply murdered.” And your comment implies some sort of comparison between a citizen being wrongfully detained by ICE and a citizen being murdered by an illegal alien. I reject that. Both are bad, but murder is beyond horrible.
I read Pro Publica’s article on citizen detention/arrest several months ago. I just glanced at it again. More than 170 detentions of citizens, 20 for more than a day in 2025. ICE arrested something like 350,000 in 2025. It’s not clear if the 150 detained were detained for any length of time. I assume that the bulk were detained during protests that went too far (e.g. laying hands on officers or throwing rocks at them). I think there have been 26 confirmed murders of citizens or legal residents by illegal aliens if we are going to compare. I looked at several of the citizen detentions back then (the time of the article) and I found, again, situations that were not black and white. The most sympathetic (to me) was the young vet, George Retes. Likeable guy. Security guard at a marijuana farm. I saw the video. He drove right up to a line of ICE officers on the highway right when they were about to take action against a group of protesters who were obstructing them. I think I believe George that he was late to work, but be late and drive around! George was not reasonable driving right up to them and expecting ICE officers to call time out in a volatile situation to address his need to get to work on time. I do have an issue with the lack of phone call and 3-day detention, however. Obviously.
If the writing is indeed on the wall, let's hope it's for the people we would all want to take down for the greatest good to the greatest number of people.
My thoughts are with you, cleek. Such a hard thing to go through with a loved one. Been through a few rounds of this myself (brother, cousins, my college love, ...). It always feels like having stumbled into emotional quicksand.
Damn. I am extremely sorry to hear that. Huge wishes for everything possible of a positive nature. I don't pray, because (as has become clear over the years) I don't believe in God, but if strong feelings of hope and solidarity have any effect at all, you have them from me.
>Which makes me, in turn, think there is much more going on here than immigration policiy.
a large part of it is an attempt to display dominance. when Bovino shouts, and the ICE troops reply "It's our fucking city", they make that perfectly clear. they are fulfilling Trump's promise to take the fight directly to the left, to take back the 'sanctuary cities', to show us who the real boss is.
they're proudly going to battle against the mythological 'left' that they've created for themselves, and they want everyone to see them do it.
The Trump administration pledged to deport violent criminals—but instead, some of them have been on the payrolls of the federal government’s most aggressive agencies.
ICE and U.S. Customs and Border Protection employed at least 30 people with sexual and violent criminal histories in recent years, according to a report published Monday by the Ohio Immigrant Alliance with research from the Pacific Antifascist Collective.
At least 20 of those individuals committed offenses with underage victims, according to the report. The 30 listed individuals have been charged with a wide litany of crimes, including gunpoint sexual assault, child sex trafficking, aggravated assault, robbery, rape, torture, kidnapping, sexual abuse of a minor, and possession and production of child sexual abuse materials.
Their transgressions occurred between 2015 and 2025, with the bulk of abuse happening within the last two years.
I don’t share your view on the balance of violence in the past years, and curious why you see it that way.
I believe it's a matter of public record.
Per the NIJ (National Institute of Justice, a division of the DOJ):
In fact, the number of far-right attacks continues to outpace all other types of terrorism and domestic violent extremism. Since 1990, far-right extremists have committed far more ideologically motivated homicides than far-left or radical Islamist extremists, including 227 events that took more than 520 lives.1 In this same period, far-left extremists committed 42 ideologically motivated attacks that took 78 lives
Not that it's a contest, but the imbalance is striking.
That report, BTW, was removed from the DOJ website after the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Make of that what you will.
And this from PBS, assuming you will consider them a reliable source:
Based ongovernment and independent analyses, right-wing extremist violence has been responsible for the overwhelming majority of fatalities, amounting to approximately 75% to 80% of U.S. domestic terrorism deaths since 2001.
From the Center for Strategic and International Studies, the historical pattern changed in 2025, with left-wing incidents outnumbering right-wing for the first time in recent memory. If you look at the numbers cited, that is mostly due to the dramatically lower number of right-wing incidents last year. Compared to previous years, the left-wing attacks grew from something like 2 to 5, Right wing attacks dropped from something like 30 to 1, where that 1 was the assassination and attempted assassination of MN elected officials.
Basically, the predominance of the right wing in US political violence is a pretty well established fact.
I find the organized and calculated obstruction tactics coupled with the apparent involvement of socialist organizations and other far left groups (and maybe even local politicians) troubling because it tends to indicate there is much more going on here than opposition to immigration policy.
Unless I'm mistaken, "obstruction" in Minneapolis has consisted of using vehicles to get in the way of ICE/CBP vehicles, and making noise to alert people of the presence of ICE/CBP. That arguably interferes with the ability of the federal agents to move easily around Minneapolis and to capture people by surprise.
They also make a lot of noise outside of hotels where ICE/CBP people are staying, which I'm sure sucks for them.
They've also thrown snowballs at ICE/CBP agents.
There are some cases of throwing fireworks at them, which strikes me as an incredibly stupid exercise in poking the bear.
In general, they are doing their best to make the federal agents feel as unwelcome as they possibly can, without rising to physical violence toward them.
You are correct, there is much more going on than opposition to immigration policy. It is opposition to heavily armed and armored federal agents arriving in numbers that are multiples of civilian public safety officers, grabbing people off the street, from their cars, and from their homes on the flimsiest pretexts (skin color, accent) and assaulting people who are legally following and/or filming them as they go about their work.
None of what ICE and CBP are doing in Minneapolis and elsewhere is necessary for them to carry out their actual duty, which is to execute removal orders, whether judicial or of their own authoring. None of it.
The people they are grabbing are generally unarmed and pose no threat to anyone. They are line cooks, teachers, daycare providers, landscaping and trade laborers, etc. Most of the people - by far - who are being grabbed have no criminal history whatsoever.
The level of violence that ICE and CBP are bringing into American cities is insane, and utterly unnecessary for the work they are supposed to be doing.
Which makes me, in turn, think there is much more going on here than immigration policiy.
hairshirthedonist and I are clearly receiving the same instructions from the Red Brigade for our comments. Slow down, bro. I'll never get that toaster oven if you keep beating me to the quota.
One thing that the right consistently misconstrues/misrepresents about the left is the nature of the relationship between antifa, socialist activists, and the protesters as a whole.
Antifa, as much as they exist as organized groups, are small cells that don't coordinate with anyone else. They don't want contact. They are afraid that any contact and coordination will lead to fed infiltration. They are a miniscule presence within these protests, and they show up uninvited.
The only real relationship between the socialist activists and the majority of the protesters comes through the socialist groups offering tactical training for the protesters - all the whistles and communication things - as an open source information practice. They aren't leading things in the sense of providing ideology and direction, they are sharing their practical experience about how, safely and effectively, to stand up to militarized federal agents who are violating the constitution.
The vast majority of the people engaging in the training are not activists or socialists, and have no interest in the ideology of the people who put together the training. All they want to know is how to prevent their neighbors from being snatched and sent to a government oubliette or dumped in a foreign country with no due process. Oh, and how to deal with the indiscriminate use of teargas and CS against them and their neighbors, and how to render aid to people being shot with less lethal rounds and beaten with batons - often in direct violation of the training and use of force guidelines.
Finally, consider this: Obama removed a whole lot of people during his presidency and went after traffickers and criminals with low-intensity, targeted operations even in sanctuary cities. No one was showing up to disrupt that because under Obama the agents were operating within normal enforcement protocols. Socialist activists were around and protesting during his time in office too (I know a surprising number through my work with my union and heard about a lot of this directly from them).
Those Minnesotans are not a bunch of radical socialists attempting to overthrow federal order, they are scared and angry midwesterners who are pissed off because the President has sent in masked, militarized enforcers to grab their neighbors without probable cause or due process. They just want things to go back to the way they were, and for ICE and CBP to go back to low-intensity work against actual threats to public safety.
I would just observe that one of the reasons a dogpile develops is related to simple population mechanics. If you have more representatives of one side than the other, when a hot button topic emerges and you have the imbalance, the flood of questions should be seen as reflecting that rather than some flaw in the majority's thinking.
While I'd like to draw out bc on some of his views, I don't think it would be very useful, in large part because of these mechanics.
The only observation I would make is that it seems clear to me that DHS chose Minneapolis for this push rather than Texas or Florida (Operation Metro Surge) as another example of population mechanics. They wanted to create a chilling effect rather than actually address the problem they claimed they were solving.
It's interesting that under the Obama administration there were so many deportations - decried by many on the left, mind you - but without ICE roaming the streets grabbing people without cause and without the number of mass protests we've been seeing not just in Minneapolis but in cities all over the country. I don't recall citizens being detained regularly (or being executed).
Maybe it's the tactics and the hiring of 10K agents in an extremely short amount of time. Maybe it's the militarization of the agents who appear to be going to war on US soil and are exceedingly aggressive and hostile.
George Floyd protests happen all over the country in large cities and small towns. Millions of people participated. A vanishingly small number of them were affiliated with Antifa. Yes, people rioted, looted, and vandalized - far, far fewer than than those who protested peacefully.
it tends to indicate there is much more going on here than opposition to immigration policy
The ICE presence seems to me to be very little to do with "immigration policy", given the seizing and detention of such an amazing number of US citizens, or people otherwise legally engaged in the system, not to mention the astonishing paucity of criminal records or convictions despite the rhetoric about "criminal illegal immigrants".
bc, do you think it is acceptable for ICE to base their actions on the colour of people's skin, or their accents? And do you think that the number of people on the streets, protecting their neighbours and otherwise monitoring and recording what is happening, demonstrates an "apparent involvement of socialist organizations and other far left groups"? Or do you think that perhaps this might be like the White House's constant reference to "radical left lunatics" to describe anyone who disagrees with their actions? And what is your view, given the vexed question of States' rights, of the fact that the states in question have objected to the deployment, and are pretty much all blue states? Does this not raise a question in your mind about whether the issue is indeed "immigration policy", or perhaps something else?
I totally agree with bc that body cameras and visible badges with numbers ought to be mandatory. As it stands, there's no reliable way to tell whether a particular individual or group is really ICE, or if they are just street thugs taking advantage of the chaos. (Personally, I'd characterize what I've seen of today's ICE agents as thugs. Untrained ones. But that's a separate discussion.)
Likewise I agree that having the local police involved would be good. Pity ICE seems unwilling to let that happen. Perhaps it would impact their photo ops.
I've not seen the violent opposition and interference that bc mentions. From what I can see, the protesters are doing little more than yell, blow whistles, and photograph what is happening. It may be noteworthy the this last seems to be what gets the ICE people most upset. One could almost believe they have something to hide.
I've been around situations where protests devolved into violence and riots. (Decades ago, but I remember.). Nothing I've seen in the last year resembles that.
> The violence from the “protestors” is intended, IMO, to provoke.
sure. as is ICE's presence. this is a political issue.
Trump and the whole GOP would absolutely love it if an ICE trooper was hurt. it would fit their "violent left" narrative and they would run the footage 24/7.
but, simple question: residents protesting or the amateur-hour thugs from ICE : who's city is it? well, ICE claims it's "their fucking city". seems like one side has it all wrong.
hopefully a judge will slap TrumpCo hard enough to leave a mark.
Which judge looks to be an interesting question. So far as I can tell, the warrant was signed by a district court judge in Missouri. The FBI has removed the materials to somewhere unspecified in Virginia. Local FBI put up crime scene tape and excluded the Fulton County officials, so no one is sure exactly what was taken.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.
On “But tell me what you really mean”
Damn. You have my deepest sympathy, cleek. I wish your wife the best, knowing that even the best is still a torment in these situations. Courage to you both.
--TP
On “Moral insanity”
wjca:
Seriously? I doubt you will find a single official, in any sanctuary city or county or state, who would have any problem at all at all with those convicted of serious crimes being picked up and deported.
I am at a loss here. This is a central issue. Minnesota DOC (state prisons) was cooperating and honoring ICE detainers once a criminal’s sentence is done. Some counties and cities (e.g. Hennepin County and Minneapolis) were not. They release them into the public sphere rather than cooperate. Now the AG (Keith Ellison) doubled down, issuing an opinion that honoring detainers violates Minnesota law, even when there is an agreement with the feds (287(g) agreements). I’m not clear if the DOC’s cooperation will continue. If I’m wrong, I’m all ears. But Hennepin County ignored 2,000 detainers since Trump took office:
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/29/us/minnesota-ice-jails-immigration-arrests.html
The issue isn’t just convicted. Those that have been arrested are a problem too. I get that a city, county or state would want to see justice for the victims and prosecute illegal aliens who commit serious crimes. But there is no good reason an illegal alien credibly accused of serious crimes should be let loose without coordination with the feds, IMO. Look at German Llangari, the illegal alien that killed Victoria Harwell in the twin cities (vehicular homicide). ICE issued a detainer and Minneapolis released him twice, ignoring the detainer. He was a fugitive after the first release. ICE had to track him down without cooperation and did so and deported him. If Minneapolis would cooperate, Minneapolis could have had its conviction, Llangari would have paid his price, and then he would have been deported. Minneapolis leaves ICE little choice.
** Far more than the number (citizens and non-citizens alike) who have simply been murdered.
I don’t know if anyone can be “simply murdered.” And your comment implies some sort of comparison between a citizen being wrongfully detained by ICE and a citizen being murdered by an illegal alien. I reject that. Both are bad, but murder is beyond horrible.
I read Pro Publica’s article on citizen detention/arrest several months ago. I just glanced at it again. More than 170 detentions of citizens, 20 for more than a day in 2025. ICE arrested something like 350,000 in 2025. It’s not clear if the 150 detained were detained for any length of time. I assume that the bulk were detained during protests that went too far (e.g. laying hands on officers or throwing rocks at them). I think there have been 26 confirmed murders of citizens or legal residents by illegal aliens if we are going to compare. I looked at several of the citizen detentions back then (the time of the article) and I found, again, situations that were not black and white. The most sympathetic (to me) was the young vet, George Retes. Likeable guy. Security guard at a marijuana farm. I saw the video. He drove right up to a line of ICE officers on the highway right when they were about to take action against a group of protesters who were obstructing them. I think I believe George that he was late to work, but be late and drive around! George was not reasonable driving right up to them and expecting ICE officers to call time out in a volatile situation to address his need to get to work on time. I do have an issue with the lack of phone call and 3-day detention, however. Obviously.
On “But tell me what you really mean”
Oooof! I'm so sorry, cleek. That's a tough one. I'm better with hugs than words, but we can't really do that here.
On “What are those words on the wall?”
If the writing is indeed on the wall, let's hope it's for the people we would all want to take down for the greatest good to the greatest number of people.
On “Feeling Philoctetes”
Unrelated to anything else here, but that title makes me think of Soundgarden's "Outshined" every time I read it:
Well, I got up feeling so down
I got off being sold out
I've kept the movie rolling
But the story's getting old now
Oh yeah
Well I just looked in the mirror
And things aren't looking so good
I'm looking California
And feeling Minnesota
Oh yeah
That "feeling Minnesota" hits a little differently these days, but still matches the mood and sentiment pretty damn well.
On “But tell me what you really mean”
My thoughts are with you, cleek. Such a hard thing to go through with a loved one. Been through a few rounds of this myself (brother, cousins, my college love, ...). It always feels like having stumbled into emotional quicksand.
"
Damn. I am extremely sorry to hear that. Huge wishes for everything possible of a positive nature. I don't pray, because (as has become clear over the years) I don't believe in God, but if strong feelings of hope and solidarity have any effect at all, you have them from me.
"
it does
"
I very much hope that does not mean what it appears to mean.
"
i wish my wife was a mouse.
On “Moral insanity”
oh, crap. now President Peace is going after Cuba.
"
I'm secretly trying to help you cut down on the Hot Pockets, man. You're a little out of control. You'll thank me later.
"
>Which makes me, in turn, think there is much more going on here than immigration policiy.
a large part of it is an attempt to display dominance. when Bovino shouts, and the ICE troops reply "It's our fucking city", they make that perfectly clear. they are fulfilling Trump's promise to take the fight directly to the left, to take back the 'sanctuary cities', to show us who the real boss is.
they're proudly going to battle against the mythological 'left' that they've created for themselves, and they want everyone to see them do it.
"
Well well, talking of undesirable criminals:
The Trump administration pledged to deport violent criminals—but instead, some of them have been on the payrolls of the federal government’s most aggressive agencies.
ICE and U.S. Customs and Border Protection employed at least 30 people with sexual and violent criminal histories in recent years, according to a report published Monday by the Ohio Immigrant Alliance with research from the Pacific Antifascist Collective.
At least 20 of those individuals committed offenses with underage victims, according to the report.
The 30 listed individuals have been charged with a wide litany of crimes, including gunpoint sexual assault, child sex trafficking, aggravated assault, robbery, rape, torture, kidnapping, sexual abuse of a minor, and possession and production of child sexual abuse materials.
Their transgressions occurred between 2015 and 2025, with the bulk of abuse happening within the last two years.
https://newrepublic.com/post/205719/ice-cbp-agents-alleged-sex-crimes-children
"
I think a long comment of mine is out there in the ether somewhere...
[ed. plucked from the bin and posted!]
"
I believe it's a matter of public record.
Per the NIJ (National Institute of Justice, a division of the DOJ):
Not that it's a contest, but the imbalance is striking.
That report, BTW, was removed from the DOJ website after the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Make of that what you will.
Here's an archive of it:
https://www.scribd.com/document/918595498/Wayback-Machine-NIJ-Issue-285-44
The removal is discussed here:
https://www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/118612/documents/HHRG-119-JU00-20250917-SD057-U57.pdf
And this from PBS, assuming you will consider them a reliable source:
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/right-wing-extremist-violence-is-more-frequent-and-deadly-than-left-wing-violence-data-shows
From the Center for Strategic and International Studies, the historical pattern changed in 2025, with left-wing incidents outnumbering right-wing for the first time in recent memory. If you look at the numbers cited, that is mostly due to the dramatically lower number of right-wing incidents last year. Compared to previous years, the left-wing attacks grew from something like 2 to 5, Right wing attacks dropped from something like 30 to 1, where that 1 was the assassination and attempted assassination of MN elected officials.
https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states
Basically, the predominance of the right wing in US political violence is a pretty well established fact.
Unless I'm mistaken, "obstruction" in Minneapolis has consisted of using vehicles to get in the way of ICE/CBP vehicles, and making noise to alert people of the presence of ICE/CBP. That arguably interferes with the ability of the federal agents to move easily around Minneapolis and to capture people by surprise.
They also make a lot of noise outside of hotels where ICE/CBP people are staying, which I'm sure sucks for them.
They've also thrown snowballs at ICE/CBP agents.
There are some cases of throwing fireworks at them, which strikes me as an incredibly stupid exercise in poking the bear.
In general, they are doing their best to make the federal agents feel as unwelcome as they possibly can, without rising to physical violence toward them.
You are correct, there is much more going on than opposition to immigration policy. It is opposition to heavily armed and armored federal agents arriving in numbers that are multiples of civilian public safety officers, grabbing people off the street, from their cars, and from their homes on the flimsiest pretexts (skin color, accent) and assaulting people who are legally following and/or filming them as they go about their work.
None of what ICE and CBP are doing in Minneapolis and elsewhere is necessary for them to carry out their actual duty, which is to execute removal orders, whether judicial or of their own authoring. None of it.
The people they are grabbing are generally unarmed and pose no threat to anyone. They are line cooks, teachers, daycare providers, landscaping and trade laborers, etc. Most of the people - by far - who are being grabbed have no criminal history whatsoever.
The level of violence that ICE and CBP are bringing into American cities is insane, and utterly unnecessary for the work they are supposed to be doing.
Which makes me, in turn, think there is much more going on here than immigration policiy.
"
hairshirthedonist and I are clearly receiving the same instructions from the Red Brigade for our comments. Slow down, bro. I'll never get that toaster oven if you keep beating me to the quota.
"
One thing that the right consistently misconstrues/misrepresents about the left is the nature of the relationship between antifa, socialist activists, and the protesters as a whole.
Antifa, as much as they exist as organized groups, are small cells that don't coordinate with anyone else. They don't want contact. They are afraid that any contact and coordination will lead to fed infiltration. They are a miniscule presence within these protests, and they show up uninvited.
The only real relationship between the socialist activists and the majority of the protesters comes through the socialist groups offering tactical training for the protesters - all the whistles and communication things - as an open source information practice. They aren't leading things in the sense of providing ideology and direction, they are sharing their practical experience about how, safely and effectively, to stand up to militarized federal agents who are violating the constitution.
The vast majority of the people engaging in the training are not activists or socialists, and have no interest in the ideology of the people who put together the training. All they want to know is how to prevent their neighbors from being snatched and sent to a government oubliette or dumped in a foreign country with no due process. Oh, and how to deal with the indiscriminate use of teargas and CS against them and their neighbors, and how to render aid to people being shot with less lethal rounds and beaten with batons - often in direct violation of the training and use of force guidelines.
Finally, consider this: Obama removed a whole lot of people during his presidency and went after traffickers and criminals with low-intensity, targeted operations even in sanctuary cities. No one was showing up to disrupt that because under Obama the agents were operating within normal enforcement protocols. Socialist activists were around and protesting during his time in office too (I know a surprising number through my work with my union and heard about a lot of this directly from them).
Those Minnesotans are not a bunch of radical socialists attempting to overthrow federal order, they are scared and angry midwesterners who are pissed off because the President has sent in masked, militarized enforcers to grab their neighbors without probable cause or due process. They just want things to go back to the way they were, and for ICE and CBP to go back to low-intensity work against actual threats to public safety.
"
I would just observe that one of the reasons a dogpile develops is related to simple population mechanics. If you have more representatives of one side than the other, when a hot button topic emerges and you have the imbalance, the flood of questions should be seen as reflecting that rather than some flaw in the majority's thinking.
While I'd like to draw out bc on some of his views, I don't think it would be very useful, in large part because of these mechanics.
The only observation I would make is that it seems clear to me that DHS chose Minneapolis for this push rather than Texas or Florida (Operation Metro Surge) as another example of population mechanics. They wanted to create a chilling effect rather than actually address the problem they claimed they were solving.
"
It's interesting that under the Obama administration there were so many deportations - decried by many on the left, mind you - but without ICE roaming the streets grabbing people without cause and without the number of mass protests we've been seeing not just in Minneapolis but in cities all over the country. I don't recall citizens being detained regularly (or being executed).
Maybe it's the tactics and the hiring of 10K agents in an extremely short amount of time. Maybe it's the militarization of the agents who appear to be going to war on US soil and are exceedingly aggressive and hostile.
George Floyd protests happen all over the country in large cities and small towns. Millions of people participated. A vanishingly small number of them were affiliated with Antifa. Yes, people rioted, looted, and vandalized - far, far fewer than than those who protested peacefully.
But why Minneapolis of all places for this swarm?
"
"who’s"
ahh. damn you, homophones.
"
it tends to indicate there is much more going on here than opposition to immigration policy
The ICE presence seems to me to be very little to do with "immigration policy", given the seizing and detention of such an amazing number of US citizens, or people otherwise legally engaged in the system, not to mention the astonishing paucity of criminal records or convictions despite the rhetoric about "criminal illegal immigrants".
bc, do you think it is acceptable for ICE to base their actions on the colour of people's skin, or their accents? And do you think that the number of people on the streets, protecting their neighbours and otherwise monitoring and recording what is happening, demonstrates an "apparent involvement of socialist organizations and other far left groups"? Or do you think that perhaps this might be like the White House's constant reference to "radical left lunatics" to describe anyone who disagrees with their actions? And what is your view, given the vexed question of States' rights, of the fact that the states in question have objected to the deployment, and are pretty much all blue states? Does this not raise a question in your mind about whether the issue is indeed "immigration policy", or perhaps something else?
"
I totally agree with bc that body cameras and visible badges with numbers ought to be mandatory. As it stands, there's no reliable way to tell whether a particular individual or group is really ICE, or if they are just street thugs taking advantage of the chaos. (Personally, I'd characterize what I've seen of today's ICE agents as thugs. Untrained ones. But that's a separate discussion.)
Likewise I agree that having the local police involved would be good. Pity ICE seems unwilling to let that happen. Perhaps it would impact their photo ops.
I've not seen the violent opposition and interference that bc mentions. From what I can see, the protesters are doing little more than yell, blow whistles, and photograph what is happening. It may be noteworthy the this last seems to be what gets the ICE people most upset. One could almost believe they have something to hide.
I've been around situations where protests devolved into violence and riots. (Decades ago, but I remember.). Nothing I've seen in the last year resembles that.
"
> The violence from the “protestors” is intended, IMO, to provoke.
sure. as is ICE's presence. this is a political issue.
Trump and the whole GOP would absolutely love it if an ICE trooper was hurt. it would fit their "violent left" narrative and they would run the footage 24/7.
but, simple question: residents protesting or the amateur-hour thugs from ICE : who's city is it? well, ICE claims it's "their fucking city". seems like one side has it all wrong.
"
hopefully a judge will slap TrumpCo hard enough to leave a mark.
Which judge looks to be an interesting question. So far as I can tell, the warrant was signed by a district court judge in Missouri. The FBI has removed the materials to somewhere unspecified in Virginia. Local FBI put up crime scene tape and excluded the Fulton County officials, so no one is sure exactly what was taken.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.