"I thought you might be focused on the homicidal crazies"
When the homicidal crazies on one side outnumber those on the other by multiples, yes, I find that worth noting.
They are "outliers" who the current POTUS has described as "beautiful people".
The left brought us the George Floyd riots, after a man was murdered in cold blood by a police officer on video.
The right brought us J6, after their candidate lost a legitimate election. They beat the crap out of Capitol police, leading to the death of some, and literally dropped trou and shit in the Capitol. We came extremely close to an honest-to-god violent autogolpe, at the instigation of the man who currently holds the office of POTUS. We came damned close to the murder of members of Congress.
And all of them were, to a person, subsequently pardoned. Every single one. Regardless of what they had done that day.
Show me anything on the left remotely comparable.
The right brought us the Bundy episode, where a bunch of self-appointed "militia" bros stood down federal officers at gunpoint. And then occupied and thoroughly trashed a public park facility.
Because Bundy didn't want to pay his grazing fees.
The left brought protests against Israel's Gaza invasion.
The right brought us Charlottesville, with bands of punk ass thugs brandishing torches and chanting "Jews will not replace us". And a fine young right wing asshole driving his car into a crowd and killing a young woman. The right brought us the Tree Of Life shooting and the firebombing of Governor Shapiro's home.
The left brought us antifa, whoever the hell they are. The right brought us the KKK (still here), the Order, the Base, Patriot Front, the Oath Keepers, the Proud Boys, and a smattering of explicitly Nazi-aligned groups. The right brought us people holding office and positions of public responsibility who are on record as being "fans of Hitler".
And I'm leaving aside the number of times - the very large number of times - that I've been told that it's only a matter of time before People Like Me are subject to summary execution by the patriots on the right who own all the guns. I've been hearing that for 25 years now. Not from fringe actors, from regular rank and file conservatives. It ain't likely to happen, but it kind of sucks to try to have a conversation with people who apparently can't wait to shoot me.
When "the left" gets out of hand, stuff gets broken. When the right gets out of hand, people get killed.
Hell yeah, the homicidal folks are an issue. And your side has most of them.
Some counties and cities (e.g. Hennepin County and Minneapolis) were not. They release them into the public sphere rather than cooperate. Now the AG (Keith Ellison) doubled down, issuing an opinion that honoring detainers violates Minnesota law, even when there is an agreement with the feds (287(g) agreements).
1) The 287(g) agreements -- Hennepin County doesn't have one -- state explicitly that the state/local authority is responsible for the costs of jailing detainees until ICE gets around to picking them up. As I read the MOA document, that responsibility is open-ended: ICE does not guarantee how quickly they will come get the detainee. At least in recent history, ICE/CBP has refused to reimburse any local authorities, 287(g) agreement or not.
2) In some states there are explicit laws that forbid spending state/county moneys to enforce federal law. Arguably, holding someone beyond when they would have been otherwise released only because of an ICE/CBP detainer request violates such laws, at least w/o reimbursement.
3) SCOTUS case law says that the choice is up to the state/local authority. The feds can't require state/local authorities to spend state/local money enforcing federal law.
4) At least in my state, rural counties tend to have surplus jail cells and non-rural counties do not. Elsewhere, there are extreme cases. There was a huge fuss when it turned out LA County was releasing some famous people who got 30-day sentences after one night in jail. As it turned out, LA County was in the situation that to create space for people who would be sentenced today, each morning they released anyone who had less than 30 days left on their sentence. You didn't have to be famous for 30 days to mean overnight.
What ICE is doing in Minneapolis (and other places to a lesser degree) is abhorrent. I really can't accept the idea that the difference between now and during Obama's terms is that he was "on the same team." That's absurd.
Maybe check out opinion polls. It's not just Democrats who are pissed about it. Minneapolis is being turned inside out. People don't want their home patrolled by out-of-control armed thugs, believe it or not.
bc: I don’t know if anyone can be “simply murdered.” And your comment implies some sort of comparison between a citizen being wrongfully detained by ICE and a citizen being murdered by an illegal alien. I reject that.
Obviously I seriously unclear. Sorry about that. I was referring to those murdered by ICE. (Which, I agree, is definitely not comparable with unlawful detention by ICE ). Judging from the videos of those killings, I'd say a first degree (or whatever the term is in Minnesota) murder charge would be straightforward.
This is a central issue. [that city and county jails were not releasing people in their custody to ICE for deportation]
It may come as a shock, but I disagree. Comparing state prisons (where a prisoner would go only after being convicted of a felony with a sentence of at least one year) with city and country jails holding not only people who would, after conviction, be moved to the DOC, but also people on lesser charges or people waiting for their cases to be adjudicated is apples and hand grenades.
Minnesota does have separation statutes (which are basically sanctuary policies) and I'm sure that part of the mix for DHS to challenge those policies. However, they are part of a legal framework, and challenging them by creating conditions on the ground that "heighten the contradictions" is something that I thought conservatives abhorred. I guess we all become what we hate.
Because ICE and DHS is trying to create a hostile environment [in order to reduce people coming illegally], they are creating a situation where city and country jails feel obliged to refuse them because ICE hopes to deport them before they have had a trial or because of what might be a minor offense. ICE is looking to deport any immigrant with any kind of criminal conviction, in an approach reminiscent of the Vietnam era "kill them all and let god sort them out." It's clear that the approach is arrest first and make them prove they are innocent. The procession of stories of people being shipped to other states or simply stopped, detained, and then released somewhere far out of the way is too common not to see.
And if they are made so uncomfortable that they leave, so much the better. And given that a lot of low and middle income people are a lost paycheck from banktruptcy, sending them out of state or forcing them to spend money they don't have is not a bug, it's a feature.
has some discussion of these issues. Your argument seems to be local jails in Minnesota are more resistant to ICE and so force needs to be applied to them. But the reason they are more resistant is because of legislation that was drafted, debated, agreed to, and signed into law. It's quite spectacular to see a conservative feel that this process can be blown off when a new president comes in.
I've noted previously (in the discussion of Minaj Hasan's podcast) (and it pains me to do so again) that all the presidents except Reagan had versions of this 'hostile environment' (the phrase is a UK one, but it is basically same shit on a different day) So it's not that the administration is doing something totally new, but at some point, (to draw on more Marxist phraseology "change in quantity becomes a change in quality."
This comment is too long already, but I would also observe that it is not mere coincidence that this is occurring where George Floyd was murdered.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_George_Floyd
That murder created opposition to police overreach and probably helps to drive the reaction that you see.
I've wondered about the difference between a dogpile and a pile-on, but from what I see today, they are roughly the same thing. I've previously assumed that if someone comes to ObWi and posts MAGA and Trump exculpating arguments (eg that the Minneapolis protesters will be largely to blame if as a result of their actions Trump invokes the Insurrection Act) that they are prepared to meet questioning, and refutation (an example of the latter is russell's upthread on rightwing v leftwing violence), but perhaps this isn't true? Maybe lj can explain how or to what extent this applies or doesn't....
Thanks for recognizing the "dog pile" phenomena. I think I answered the choice of Minneapolis (vs. Minnesota writ large). And I suspect it being in Gov. Walz' back yard was a plus for Trump.
nous:
I lot there. I didn't ignore it. I'm not convinced Antifa has as little involvement as you say. I note that Antifa has targeted ICE:
Basically, the predominance of the right wing in US political violence is a pretty well-established fact.
I thought you might be focusing on the homicidal crazies. IMO, you paint with way to broad a brush. While I acknowledge the point, they are outliers. The right roundly condemned Timothy McVeigh, for example. The crazies do not enjoy widespread support by either left or right. I almost put all of them in the same basket and I think it does a disservice to attribute the nut jobs and terrorists to the mainstream left or right.
The left commits far more assaults, property damage, riots more, etc in the name of political issues. Protests leaning into riot/violence is a familiar pattern since 2020. In addition, the left has blocked access to conservative speakers at college, often resorting to intimidation or violence. The left has occupied college campuses and aligned with terrorists using violence or threats thereof to intimidate Jewish students. Antisemitism has been mainstreamed. The cheers from mainstreamers on the left following the Trump assassination attempts and the Charlie Kirk shooting are troubling.
The right is far from perfect, but I note the pushback to, for example, Carlson’s interview with Fuentes and Kevin Roberts’ defense of that. We know we have some problems and are pushing back against it. Maybe I’m just not privy to the same thing happening on the left?
Hsh: It’s interesting that under the Obama administration there were so many deportations . . .
I think it is as simple as he’s a Democrat and his predecessor didn’t let in 10-20 million illegal immigrants in 4 years. Obama had more cooperation with local law enforcement. I agree that it is very interesting. Obama did some fancy foot work on the statistic, though, reporting turnaways at the border as deportations to look tougher that he was. The exact same guy in Minnesota running things now was decorated under Obama (Tom Homan). While the ALCU complained that the border patrol was “monstruous” under Obama and there were some protests, I think the pushback was muted simply because he was on the same team.
Not getting involved isn’t the same as obstructing (or even merely objecting).
True, but this isn’t going to the beach. If someone is subject to deportation and has a dangerous criminal record, why would an agency pledged to keeping the public safe not want that person removed? I do understand some petty crimes not being passed on. But I simply don’t get the more serious ones. Without cooperation, ICE has to go find the person. And it’s pretty hard to do that with what I’m seeing.
Not getting involved isn't the same as obstructing (or even merely objecting). What I think wj means is that virtually no one is going to complain about ICE deporting dangerous people in the country illegally if ICE is doing it properly according to the law. None of that requires state and local agencies to assist in the effort.
I don't mind if my neighbor wants to go the beach, but that doesn't mean I'm giving him a towel.
Damn. You have my deepest sympathy, cleek. I wish your wife the best, knowing that even the best is still a torment in these situations. Courage to you both.
--TP
Seriously? I doubt you will find a single official, in any sanctuary city or county or state, who would have any problem at all at all with those convicted of serious crimes being picked up and deported.
I am at a loss here. This is a central issue. Minnesota DOC (state prisons) was cooperating and honoring ICE detainers once a criminal’s sentence is done. Some counties and cities (e.g. Hennepin County and Minneapolis) were not. They release them into the public sphere rather than cooperate. Now the AG (Keith Ellison) doubled down, issuing an opinion that honoring detainers violates Minnesota law, even when there is an agreement with the feds (287(g) agreements). I’m not clear if the DOC’s cooperation will continue. If I’m wrong, I’m all ears. But Hennepin County ignored 2,000 detainers since Trump took office:
The issue isn’t just convicted. Those that have been arrested are a problem too. I get that a city, county or state would want to see justice for the victims and prosecute illegal aliens who commit serious crimes. But there is no good reason an illegal alien credibly accused of serious crimes should be let loose without coordination with the feds, IMO. Look at German Llangari, the illegal alien that killed Victoria Harwell in the twin cities (vehicular homicide). ICE issued a detainer and Minneapolis released him twice, ignoring the detainer. He was a fugitive after the first release. ICE had to track him down without cooperation and did so and deported him. If Minneapolis would cooperate, Minneapolis could have had its conviction, Llangari would have paid his price, and then he would have been deported. Minneapolis leaves ICE little choice.
** Far more than the number (citizens and non-citizens alike) who have simply been murdered.
I don’t know if anyone can be “simply murdered.” And your comment implies some sort of comparison between a citizen being wrongfully detained by ICE and a citizen being murdered by an illegal alien. I reject that. Both are bad, but murder is beyond horrible.
I read Pro Publica’s article on citizen detention/arrest several months ago. I just glanced at it again. More than 170 detentions of citizens, 20 for more than a day in 2025. ICE arrested something like 350,000 in 2025. It’s not clear if the 150 detained were detained for any length of time. I assume that the bulk were detained during protests that went too far (e.g. laying hands on officers or throwing rocks at them). I think there have been 26 confirmed murders of citizens or legal residents by illegal aliens if we are going to compare. I looked at several of the citizen detentions back then (the time of the article) and I found, again, situations that were not black and white. The most sympathetic (to me) was the young vet, George Retes. Likeable guy. Security guard at a marijuana farm. I saw the video. He drove right up to a line of ICE officers on the highway right when they were about to take action against a group of protesters who were obstructing them. I think I believe George that he was late to work, but be late and drive around! George was not reasonable driving right up to them and expecting ICE officers to call time out in a volatile situation to address his need to get to work on time. I do have an issue with the lack of phone call and 3-day detention, however. Obviously.
If the writing is indeed on the wall, let's hope it's for the people we would all want to take down for the greatest good to the greatest number of people.
My thoughts are with you, cleek. Such a hard thing to go through with a loved one. Been through a few rounds of this myself (brother, cousins, my college love, ...). It always feels like having stumbled into emotional quicksand.
Damn. I am extremely sorry to hear that. Huge wishes for everything possible of a positive nature. I don't pray, because (as has become clear over the years) I don't believe in God, but if strong feelings of hope and solidarity have any effect at all, you have them from me.
>Which makes me, in turn, think there is much more going on here than immigration policiy.
a large part of it is an attempt to display dominance. when Bovino shouts, and the ICE troops reply "It's our fucking city", they make that perfectly clear. they are fulfilling Trump's promise to take the fight directly to the left, to take back the 'sanctuary cities', to show us who the real boss is.
they're proudly going to battle against the mythological 'left' that they've created for themselves, and they want everyone to see them do it.
The Trump administration pledged to deport violent criminals—but instead, some of them have been on the payrolls of the federal government’s most aggressive agencies.
ICE and U.S. Customs and Border Protection employed at least 30 people with sexual and violent criminal histories in recent years, according to a report published Monday by the Ohio Immigrant Alliance with research from the Pacific Antifascist Collective.
At least 20 of those individuals committed offenses with underage victims, according to the report. The 30 listed individuals have been charged with a wide litany of crimes, including gunpoint sexual assault, child sex trafficking, aggravated assault, robbery, rape, torture, kidnapping, sexual abuse of a minor, and possession and production of child sexual abuse materials.
Their transgressions occurred between 2015 and 2025, with the bulk of abuse happening within the last two years.
On “Moral insanity”
"I thought you might be focused on the homicidal crazies"
When the homicidal crazies on one side outnumber those on the other by multiples, yes, I find that worth noting.
They are "outliers" who the current POTUS has described as "beautiful people".
The left brought us the George Floyd riots, after a man was murdered in cold blood by a police officer on video.
The right brought us J6, after their candidate lost a legitimate election. They beat the crap out of Capitol police, leading to the death of some, and literally dropped trou and shit in the Capitol. We came extremely close to an honest-to-god violent autogolpe, at the instigation of the man who currently holds the office of POTUS. We came damned close to the murder of members of Congress.
And all of them were, to a person, subsequently pardoned. Every single one. Regardless of what they had done that day.
Show me anything on the left remotely comparable.
The right brought us the Bundy episode, where a bunch of self-appointed "militia" bros stood down federal officers at gunpoint. And then occupied and thoroughly trashed a public park facility.
Because Bundy didn't want to pay his grazing fees.
The left brought protests against Israel's Gaza invasion.
The right brought us Charlottesville, with bands of punk ass thugs brandishing torches and chanting "Jews will not replace us". And a fine young right wing asshole driving his car into a crowd and killing a young woman. The right brought us the Tree Of Life shooting and the firebombing of Governor Shapiro's home.
The left brought us antifa, whoever the hell they are. The right brought us the KKK (still here), the Order, the Base, Patriot Front, the Oath Keepers, the Proud Boys, and a smattering of explicitly Nazi-aligned groups. The right brought us people holding office and positions of public responsibility who are on record as being "fans of Hitler".
And I'm leaving aside the number of times - the very large number of times - that I've been told that it's only a matter of time before People Like Me are subject to summary execution by the patriots on the right who own all the guns. I've been hearing that for 25 years now. Not from fringe actors, from regular rank and file conservatives. It ain't likely to happen, but it kind of sucks to try to have a conversation with people who apparently can't wait to shoot me.
When "the left" gets out of hand, stuff gets broken. When the right gets out of hand, people get killed.
Hell yeah, the homicidal folks are an issue. And your side has most of them.
"
Some counties and cities (e.g. Hennepin County and Minneapolis) were not. They release them into the public sphere rather than cooperate. Now the AG (Keith Ellison) doubled down, issuing an opinion that honoring detainers violates Minnesota law, even when there is an agreement with the feds (287(g) agreements).
1) The 287(g) agreements -- Hennepin County doesn't have one -- state explicitly that the state/local authority is responsible for the costs of jailing detainees until ICE gets around to picking them up. As I read the MOA document, that responsibility is open-ended: ICE does not guarantee how quickly they will come get the detainee. At least in recent history, ICE/CBP has refused to reimburse any local authorities, 287(g) agreement or not.
2) In some states there are explicit laws that forbid spending state/county moneys to enforce federal law. Arguably, holding someone beyond when they would have been otherwise released only because of an ICE/CBP detainer request violates such laws, at least w/o reimbursement.
3) SCOTUS case law says that the choice is up to the state/local authority. The feds can't require state/local authorities to spend state/local money enforcing federal law.
4) At least in my state, rural counties tend to have surplus jail cells and non-rural counties do not. Elsewhere, there are extreme cases. There was a huge fuss when it turned out LA County was releasing some famous people who got 30-day sentences after one night in jail. As it turned out, LA County was in the situation that to create space for people who would be sentenced today, each morning they released anyone who had less than 30 days left on their sentence. You didn't have to be famous for 30 days to mean overnight.
"
What ICE is doing in Minneapolis (and other places to a lesser degree) is abhorrent. I really can't accept the idea that the difference between now and during Obama's terms is that he was "on the same team." That's absurd.
Maybe check out opinion polls. It's not just Democrats who are pissed about it. Minneapolis is being turned inside out. People don't want their home patrolled by out-of-control armed thugs, believe it or not.
On “But tell me what you really mean”
I'm really sorry to hear this and hope my flippancy with the article didn't cause any pain.
On “Moral insanity”
bc: I don’t know if anyone can be “simply murdered.” And your comment implies some sort of comparison between a citizen being wrongfully detained by ICE and a citizen being murdered by an illegal alien. I reject that.
Obviously I seriously unclear. Sorry about that. I was referring to those murdered by ICE. (Which, I agree, is definitely not comparable with unlawful detention by ICE ). Judging from the videos of those killings, I'd say a first degree (or whatever the term is in Minnesota) murder charge would be straightforward.
"
This is a central issue. [that city and county jails were not releasing people in their custody to ICE for deportation]
It may come as a shock, but I disagree. Comparing state prisons (where a prisoner would go only after being convicted of a felony with a sentence of at least one year) with city and country jails holding not only people who would, after conviction, be moved to the DOC, but also people on lesser charges or people waiting for their cases to be adjudicated is apples and hand grenades.
Minnesota does have separation statutes (which are basically sanctuary policies) and I'm sure that part of the mix for DHS to challenge those policies. However, they are part of a legal framework, and challenging them by creating conditions on the ground that "heighten the contradictions" is something that I thought conservatives abhorred. I guess we all become what we hate.
Because ICE and DHS is trying to create a hostile environment [in order to reduce people coming illegally], they are creating a situation where city and country jails feel obliged to refuse them because ICE hopes to deport them before they have had a trial or because of what might be a minor offense. ICE is looking to deport any immigrant with any kind of criminal conviction, in an approach reminiscent of the Vietnam era "kill them all and let god sort them out." It's clear that the approach is arrest first and make them prove they are innocent. The procession of stories of people being shipped to other states or simply stopped, detained, and then released somewhere far out of the way is too common not to see.
And if they are made so uncomfortable that they leave, so much the better. And given that a lot of low and middle income people are a lost paycheck from banktruptcy, sending them out of state or forcing them to spend money they don't have is not a bug, it's a feature.
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2025/12/11/ice-jails-update/
has some discussion of these issues. Your argument seems to be local jails in Minnesota are more resistant to ICE and so force needs to be applied to them. But the reason they are more resistant is because of legislation that was drafted, debated, agreed to, and signed into law. It's quite spectacular to see a conservative feel that this process can be blown off when a new president comes in.
I've noted previously (in the discussion of Minaj Hasan's podcast) (and it pains me to do so again) that all the presidents except Reagan had versions of this 'hostile environment' (the phrase is a UK one, but it is basically same shit on a different day) So it's not that the administration is doing something totally new, but at some point, (to draw on more Marxist phraseology "change in quantity becomes a change in quality."
This comment is too long already, but I would also observe that it is not mere coincidence that this is occurring where George Floyd was murdered.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_George_Floyd
That murder created opposition to police overreach and probably helps to drive the reaction that you see.
"
I've wondered about the difference between a dogpile and a pile-on, but from what I see today, they are roughly the same thing. I've previously assumed that if someone comes to ObWi and posts MAGA and Trump exculpating arguments (eg that the Minneapolis protesters will be largely to blame if as a result of their actions Trump invokes the Insurrection Act) that they are prepared to meet questioning, and refutation (an example of the latter is russell's upthread on rightwing v leftwing violence), but perhaps this isn't true? Maybe lj can explain how or to what extent this applies or doesn't....
"
This is an interesting piece about the current incarnation of antifa, and their project to unmask ICE agents et al:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/30/antifa-unmasking-ice
"
lj:
Thanks for recognizing the "dog pile" phenomena. I think I answered the choice of Minneapolis (vs. Minnesota writ large). And I suspect it being in Gov. Walz' back yard was a plus for Trump.
nous:
I lot there. I didn't ignore it. I'm not convinced Antifa has as little involvement as you say. I note that Antifa has targeted ICE:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndtx/pr/antifa-cell-members-indicted-prairieland-shooting
I also think these protests are more astroturfed than you allow. There is some interesting info out there on funding. Time will tell.
"
russell:
Basically, the predominance of the right wing in US political violence is a pretty well-established fact.
I thought you might be focusing on the homicidal crazies. IMO, you paint with way to broad a brush. While I acknowledge the point, they are outliers. The right roundly condemned Timothy McVeigh, for example. The crazies do not enjoy widespread support by either left or right. I almost put all of them in the same basket and I think it does a disservice to attribute the nut jobs and terrorists to the mainstream left or right.
The left commits far more assaults, property damage, riots more, etc in the name of political issues. Protests leaning into riot/violence is a familiar pattern since 2020. In addition, the left has blocked access to conservative speakers at college, often resorting to intimidation or violence. The left has occupied college campuses and aligned with terrorists using violence or threats thereof to intimidate Jewish students. Antisemitism has been mainstreamed. The cheers from mainstreamers on the left following the Trump assassination attempts and the Charlie Kirk shooting are troubling.
The right is far from perfect, but I note the pushback to, for example, Carlson’s interview with Fuentes and Kevin Roberts’ defense of that. We know we have some problems and are pushing back against it. Maybe I’m just not privy to the same thing happening on the left?
Hsh: It’s interesting that under the Obama administration there were so many deportations . . .
I think it is as simple as he’s a Democrat and his predecessor didn’t let in 10-20 million illegal immigrants in 4 years. Obama had more cooperation with local law enforcement. I agree that it is very interesting. Obama did some fancy foot work on the statistic, though, reporting turnaways at the border as deportations to look tougher that he was. The exact same guy in Minnesota running things now was decorated under Obama (Tom Homan). While the ALCU complained that the border patrol was “monstruous” under Obama and there were some protests, I think the pushback was muted simply because he was on the same team.
Not getting involved isn’t the same as obstructing (or even merely objecting).
True, but this isn’t going to the beach. If someone is subject to deportation and has a dangerous criminal record, why would an agency pledged to keeping the public safe not want that person removed? I do understand some petty crimes not being passed on. But I simply don’t get the more serious ones. Without cooperation, ICE has to go find the person. And it’s pretty hard to do that with what I’m seeing.
"
Not getting involved isn't the same as obstructing (or even merely objecting). What I think wj means is that virtually no one is going to complain about ICE deporting dangerous people in the country illegally if ICE is doing it properly according to the law. None of that requires state and local agencies to assist in the effort.
I don't mind if my neighbor wants to go the beach, but that doesn't mean I'm giving him a towel.
On “But tell me what you really mean”
Damn. You have my deepest sympathy, cleek. I wish your wife the best, knowing that even the best is still a torment in these situations. Courage to you both.
--TP
On “Moral insanity”
wjca:
Seriously? I doubt you will find a single official, in any sanctuary city or county or state, who would have any problem at all at all with those convicted of serious crimes being picked up and deported.
I am at a loss here. This is a central issue. Minnesota DOC (state prisons) was cooperating and honoring ICE detainers once a criminal’s sentence is done. Some counties and cities (e.g. Hennepin County and Minneapolis) were not. They release them into the public sphere rather than cooperate. Now the AG (Keith Ellison) doubled down, issuing an opinion that honoring detainers violates Minnesota law, even when there is an agreement with the feds (287(g) agreements). I’m not clear if the DOC’s cooperation will continue. If I’m wrong, I’m all ears. But Hennepin County ignored 2,000 detainers since Trump took office:
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/29/us/minnesota-ice-jails-immigration-arrests.html
The issue isn’t just convicted. Those that have been arrested are a problem too. I get that a city, county or state would want to see justice for the victims and prosecute illegal aliens who commit serious crimes. But there is no good reason an illegal alien credibly accused of serious crimes should be let loose without coordination with the feds, IMO. Look at German Llangari, the illegal alien that killed Victoria Harwell in the twin cities (vehicular homicide). ICE issued a detainer and Minneapolis released him twice, ignoring the detainer. He was a fugitive after the first release. ICE had to track him down without cooperation and did so and deported him. If Minneapolis would cooperate, Minneapolis could have had its conviction, Llangari would have paid his price, and then he would have been deported. Minneapolis leaves ICE little choice.
** Far more than the number (citizens and non-citizens alike) who have simply been murdered.
I don’t know if anyone can be “simply murdered.” And your comment implies some sort of comparison between a citizen being wrongfully detained by ICE and a citizen being murdered by an illegal alien. I reject that. Both are bad, but murder is beyond horrible.
I read Pro Publica’s article on citizen detention/arrest several months ago. I just glanced at it again. More than 170 detentions of citizens, 20 for more than a day in 2025. ICE arrested something like 350,000 in 2025. It’s not clear if the 150 detained were detained for any length of time. I assume that the bulk were detained during protests that went too far (e.g. laying hands on officers or throwing rocks at them). I think there have been 26 confirmed murders of citizens or legal residents by illegal aliens if we are going to compare. I looked at several of the citizen detentions back then (the time of the article) and I found, again, situations that were not black and white. The most sympathetic (to me) was the young vet, George Retes. Likeable guy. Security guard at a marijuana farm. I saw the video. He drove right up to a line of ICE officers on the highway right when they were about to take action against a group of protesters who were obstructing them. I think I believe George that he was late to work, but be late and drive around! George was not reasonable driving right up to them and expecting ICE officers to call time out in a volatile situation to address his need to get to work on time. I do have an issue with the lack of phone call and 3-day detention, however. Obviously.
On “But tell me what you really mean”
Oooof! I'm so sorry, cleek. That's a tough one. I'm better with hugs than words, but we can't really do that here.
On “What are those words on the wall?”
If the writing is indeed on the wall, let's hope it's for the people we would all want to take down for the greatest good to the greatest number of people.
On “Feeling Philoctetes”
Unrelated to anything else here, but that title makes me think of Soundgarden's "Outshined" every time I read it:
Well, I got up feeling so down
I got off being sold out
I've kept the movie rolling
But the story's getting old now
Oh yeah
Well I just looked in the mirror
And things aren't looking so good
I'm looking California
And feeling Minnesota
Oh yeah
That "feeling Minnesota" hits a little differently these days, but still matches the mood and sentiment pretty damn well.
On “But tell me what you really mean”
My thoughts are with you, cleek. Such a hard thing to go through with a loved one. Been through a few rounds of this myself (brother, cousins, my college love, ...). It always feels like having stumbled into emotional quicksand.
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Damn. I am extremely sorry to hear that. Huge wishes for everything possible of a positive nature. I don't pray, because (as has become clear over the years) I don't believe in God, but if strong feelings of hope and solidarity have any effect at all, you have them from me.
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it does
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I very much hope that does not mean what it appears to mean.
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i wish my wife was a mouse.
On “Moral insanity”
oh, crap. now President Peace is going after Cuba.
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I'm secretly trying to help you cut down on the Hot Pockets, man. You're a little out of control. You'll thank me later.
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>Which makes me, in turn, think there is much more going on here than immigration policiy.
a large part of it is an attempt to display dominance. when Bovino shouts, and the ICE troops reply "It's our fucking city", they make that perfectly clear. they are fulfilling Trump's promise to take the fight directly to the left, to take back the 'sanctuary cities', to show us who the real boss is.
they're proudly going to battle against the mythological 'left' that they've created for themselves, and they want everyone to see them do it.
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Well well, talking of undesirable criminals:
The Trump administration pledged to deport violent criminals—but instead, some of them have been on the payrolls of the federal government’s most aggressive agencies.
ICE and U.S. Customs and Border Protection employed at least 30 people with sexual and violent criminal histories in recent years, according to a report published Monday by the Ohio Immigrant Alliance with research from the Pacific Antifascist Collective.
At least 20 of those individuals committed offenses with underage victims, according to the report.
The 30 listed individuals have been charged with a wide litany of crimes, including gunpoint sexual assault, child sex trafficking, aggravated assault, robbery, rape, torture, kidnapping, sexual abuse of a minor, and possession and production of child sexual abuse materials.
Their transgressions occurred between 2015 and 2025, with the bulk of abuse happening within the last two years.
https://newrepublic.com/post/205719/ice-cbp-agents-alleged-sex-crimes-children
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