Commenter Archive

Comments by GftNC*

On “People and poliltics

Charlie and his wife (and the rest of them) sound like wonderful people.

They were a pretty remarkable crew.

FWIW, the younger guy on the left, sitting in front of my grandfather (older Archie Bunker looking guy in the white shirt) was Eddie Gonzales. Not a brother by birth, but basically unofficially adopted into the family.

Eddie's father abandoned him, and his mother was an alcoholic. Eddie himself was gay, which nobody ever talked about but everyone knew, and nobody really cared about one way or the other. He was good friends with the brothers, so he came and lived with them and my grandfolks raised him along with the rest of the gang.

Eddie was at every family gathering and was just part of the family, full stop. Just a part of the larger Richmond Hill crew.

So yes, this weird dilemma of people who are personally beautiful - kind and outgoing and generous - but aligned with social and political movements that are... not.

I think a part of all of this for my mom's folks was coming up through the Depression, and then WWII. The brothers were too young to serve in the war, but my father (guy in front of the Christmas tree holding the baby - you can only see the top of his head) did, and they all dealt with rationing etc.

They were basically poor - not desperately, but poor enough to have to watch every nickel and do without a lot of things. Like everyone around them was. Tucky - the brother in the middle with the big smile - was offered a full basketball scholarship to Columbia, and wasn't able to go, because the family needed him to work and bring money into the house.

My sense is that all of those experiences - the anxiety of having just barely enough, the sacrifices around wartime - gave them an ethic that you pull together and help out whoever needs help.

But lots of folks came through all of that and were not quite as open-hearted.

This crew and their kids were my people, really - my father's family were all in Georgia, and I did not see them as often, many of them I never even met. They were a joy to know, and I miss them.

On “Another variety in the diversity of greasy

Vance strikes me as a person who has no values beyond self-promotion and no sincerity. He'll say or do what is convenient at the time. He might decide to dump the Hindo wife to marry the wife of the martyred Saint Charlie of Free Speech for Conservatives Only. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

On “People and poliltics

Are you in contact with your Apache and Hopi cousins? I'm curious about how their lives turned out. My shirt tail relatives of that generation had a native adopted daughter, but their attitude was condescending and eventually she cut off all connection.

As for how good people do bad things. I think partly it's because they are good people that they can do bad things. They know their own lives, their values, their actions and think that people like them aren't doing anything bad. That plus the harm they do is an abstraction to them.

"

Charlie and his wife (and the rest of them) sound like wonderful people. It's so valuable to hear the specifics, and to be reminded (and one needs to be reminded) that people are complicated, and that they contain multitudes. Sometimes, like in that old Dirk Bogarde movie, you have to focus on the singer not the song.

"

I'm resigned to the impossibility of figuring out how otherwise good and smart people have horrible politics. I can only observe, without having a worthwhile explanation, that they sometimes do.

It's much easier if the person in question is plainly an a**hole.

"

I think you make a good point about people being complex. So the first question that's worth asking about someone whose politics you question is Why are you supporting this horrible person for office. The answer can be surprising.

Take one obvious example that most of us are old enough to remember. There are people who supported Clinton both times that he won, simply because they liked the platform he ran on and despite his character flaws. There are others who opposed him, not because they necessarily disliked his platform, but because they believed that character matters in elected officials and found his objectionable. (Personally, I think him a pretty appalling excuse for a human being, even if I like many of the things he tried to do while in office.)

Things get more complex when you find people that have essentially identical views on the issues. Faced by a candidate whom they agree with on some issues and disagree with on others, they may vote differently based on how they prioritize the various issues.

Certainly there are extreme cases -- Trump, for example, has absolutely nothing that I can see to recommend him. Unless you somehow manage to see politics are merely a show, with zero real world consequences. But in general people, and circumstances, are rarely binary good/bad.

On “Another variety in the diversity of greasy

But cleaned up kinda misses the point, doesn't it?

"

All cleaned up...

On “Horrifying stuff

Is there anyone in the US who has a stronger work ethic than immigrants?

In pretty much any country, no group has a stronger work ethic than immigrants. About the only exceptions are places where most of the immigrants are retirees or the idle rich.

The US is unusual only in the numbers of immigrants that we have been blessed (and we have been blessed) with. Not unique, certainly, but unusual.

On “Weekend Music Thread #04 John Mackey

I have a long time friend, Kile Smith, who is actually a living breathing composer. He heard a recording of the Brahms Requiem when he was a teenager and decided, without much other background or context other than playing some bass and singing in his high school chorus, that that was what he wanted to do.

I met Kile when we both attended Bible College in the mid 70's. Long story for another time. Suffice it to say we became good friends, went our separate ways for a while, and then reconnected a few years ago courtesy of Facebook. For which I'm grateful, Kile is a good person to know.

Most serious arts have a sort of "Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner" aspect to them. They require a lot of time - hours and hours and hours - of hard work, often time spent alone, with no particular guarantee that you are going to get anywhere. Composing has the additional complication that, to actually realize your work, you have to get someone to perform it. Which introduces a kind of chicken-and-egg thing - if you don't really have a reputation yet, how do you persuade someone to invest in performing your stuff? But if nobody ever performs your stuff, how do you build a reputation?

It's a challenge.

Kile is my age - 69 and counting - and his work is now performed and recorded a lot, by ensembles with real national and international reputations. But it took decades of hard lonely work to make that happen. If you ask him, he will tell you that his secret is having an "iron butt" - he made himself sit in a chair for hours, day after day, to do the work. He's an extremely humble guy, makes no great claims about his talents, but he also knows his work is good.

And it is good.

Most of his work is sacred choral stuff. He's also done some orchestral work, and has set texts by folks as various as Seneca, Robert Lax, Tagore, and Stephen Foster.

Here is Kile talking about his process in composing an Agnus Del.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMoL-y_vjIY

One of the movements from his setting of texts by Seneca, "The Waking Sun".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0J1pgCAx3g

"The stars shine", from his "Consolation of Apollo", a setting of a text from Boethius.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZIe8d5StCw

"Three Spirituals for Piano Trio", an instrumental piece.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq6cjnOxW00

Kile almost died this year. He had been feeling ill for a while, with weird and non-specific symptoms. Doctors gave him a bewildering variety of diagnoses, none of which led to a useful treatment plan. He finally got an accurate diagnosis of multiple myolema and has spent the last couple of months in the oncology ward at University of Pennsylvania Hospital. He's doing better - still a long road ahead, but improving, with good prospects for managing things and having lots of years to go.

While in isolation, he finished a piece that had been commissioned. I suggested to him (via Facebook IM, it was a no-visitors situation and talking on the phone was too tiring) that he might want to take his condition as an opportunity to rest for a bit, but apparently he wasn't having it.

Let us work while we have the light.

Thank you for this opportunity to share my good friend with you all.

On “I got depressed so I bought hydrangeas

Thank you, nous, lj and pb.

On “Horrifying stuff

Also, as a comment on the "work ethic" thing:

Is there anyone in the US who has a stronger work ethic than immigrants?

Maybe it's just me, but every time I see someone who looks "immigrant-ish" - which usually means cafe au lait skin tone and an accent - they are working their asses off.

You know those "how many X does it take to do Y" jokes? Here is mine.

How many immigrants does it take to... oh wait, never mind, they're done.

Just saying.

"

Now, some of us have more Neanderthal DNA than others, but that miscegenation is long, long in the past.

There are far fewer men who self-identify as Neanderthal than there are women who claim that they're married to one.

"

russell - Grok needs to read the Second Treatise on Government. Also the preamble to the Massachusetts Constitution, which preceded and was a model for the US Constitution.

I'm sure that Grok has been fed those things, but what it "thinks" about those things is just a matter of remixing what others have said about those texts.

"

Core Tenets of American Culture

The “rugged individualist” myth has been the source of more suffering in America than almost anything else.

And Grok cites Locke to support the claim that it's a "core American value".

You can persuade me that Locke argues for fundamental human rights, belonging to each individual.

I am... less than persuaded that Locke argued for "rugged individualism". If anything, Locke argued for a social contract, where we all agree to surrender some personal liberties in order to live in society, as opposed to in a state of nature.

Grok needs to read the Second Treatise on Government. Also the preamble to the Massachusetts Constitution, which preceded and was a model for the US Constitution.

"

Oh, I expect that they would be satisfied with establishing whether there had been miscegenation in the last generation or two. The old 1 drop approach having died of all the mixing in the century and a half since owners could, and did, rape their slaves with impunity.

One could try just going by melanin, except that would restrict testing to late winter and early spring. Otherwise summer tans start confusing the issue vs permanent sun tans.

"

I doubt that DNA testing would do what the racists want, since by the old "one drop rule", we're ALL africans, and the thing that gets them riled up is "melanin content", which is only weakly related to DNA.

Now, some of us have more Neanderthal DNA than others, but that miscegenation is long, long in the past. Probably.

"

And tends to be an enthusiasm of people whose "understanding" of the American frontier is limited to Hollywood movies and old TV westerns. When the reality was that, in the Old West people cooperated to survive. And those who didn't didn't.

"

Core Tenets of American Culture

The "rugged individualist" myth has been the source of more suffering in America than almost anything else.

"

As a plus the new categories would allow the reintroduction of miscegenation laws.

As a small bit of pedantry, what we had were anti-miscegenation laws.

At least this time around it would be possible (maybe not feasible as a general rule, but possible) to use DNA testing to determine if those laws had been violated. Although there might be an issue with the fact that some (whisper it!) expertise is required to run such tests and interpret the results.

"

Maybe a compromise could be found (call SCOTUS!) by creating 'metic' and 'helot' as new legal categories. His Orangeness already claims the right to revoke citizenship (iirc it's already in the works to get it to SCOTUS). If he could reduce non-Aryans to helots, the employers, who currently employ the swarthy 'illegals', would have their practices legalized and the base could be persuaded that legally abusable 'not really Americans' could be a boon instead of a nuisance. As a plus the new categories would allow the reintroduction of miscegenation laws: Race defilers would lose their full citizenship status which would be OK with SCOTUS since it would not technically make mixed marriages illegal but just discourage them and also further reduce the number of residents eligible to vote. For the privileged their non-Aryan wives could get the legal status of concubine (I think His Orangeness would appreciate that).

"

What is “American culture”?

Here are some of the basics.

"American culture is diverse, shaped by history, immigration, and regional differences, but several core tenets recur across sources like sociological studies (e.g., Hofstede's cultural dimensions), historical analyses (e.g., Tocqueville's Democracy in America), and contemporary surveys (e.g., Pew Research on American values). These are not universal—exceptions and debates exist—but they form a widely recognized foundation."
Core Tenets of American Culture

"

So, first, an observation.

The US has consistently swung back and forth between more or less open door immigration policies, to highly restrictive ones. And we tend to swing back to restrictive policies when the number of immigrants in the US reaches about 15% of the overall population.

See here: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/immigrant-population-over-time

So, for example, in the later 19th C. we wanted folks to come because we wanted their labor. That's how my Italian great-grandparents come - great-grandpa was recruited to come dig holes for the NYC subway system.

Beginning at the turn of the 20th Century, folks began freaking out about it all, and by the 20's that resulted in the Immigration Act of 1924, which basically said no more immigrants from Asia at all, and far fewer from Eastern and Southern Europe. No more slant-eyes or swarthy garlic-eating weirdos. Right? Sound familiar?

So now we're back at around 15% and everybody is freaking out, like we always do. And Trump et al are riding that train.

Next, a question.

What "American culture" do we expect people to "assimilate" into? There are probably a couple dozen "American cultures" in play. I won't try to enumerate them, because we don't have all day here, but suffice it to say that there are *very many* places in this country where people speak different languages, practice different religions or no religion at all, listen to different kinds of music, eat different food, have different family structures.

It would appear from Vance's speech that what he would like is for everyone to speak primarily or exclusively English, be Christian (and preferably Catholic or evangelical Christian), and belong to a two-parent nuclear family with a male and female parent. I guess this is based on the idea that "English language", "Christian", and the "Leave it to Beaver" nuclear family are somehow "more American".

About 1 in 5 people in this country speak a language other than English at home. Are they "unassimilated"?

About 62% of people here identify as "Christian", but only about 3 in 10 people here attend church once a week or most weeks. About 28% of us identify as "religiously unaffiliated". The remaining 10% or so encompass all of the other faiths.

Are just that 3 in 10 "assimilated"?

Almost a quarter of American children live in single-parent households. Which is very high when compared to the rest of the world, but is not function of our rate of immigration. Are all of those families "assimilated"?

What is this "American culture" Vance et al are on about? What does it mean to be "assimilated" into that culture, whatever it is? Which of the variety of cultures that exist here get to be officially sanctions "American" ones?

What is "American culture"? Who gets to decide?

On “I got depressed so I bought hydrangeas

I took up teaching maths part-time for the local university some time after I retired from full-time work. Sometimes I feel exploited, because the overseas students pay the universities very well, and the university pays me not much. But it is a joy to work with young people who take pleasure in learning.

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