State of the Discussion

The posts in play...

The law of the letter
(56)
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Your Schadenfreude monitoring open thread
(22)
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The comments...

wj

All this math talk has me celebrating pi, but not exactly.
Hmmm. I'm thinking exactly, but not precisely.

hairshirthedonist
+ I played with an electronic calculator when I was a kid. It allowed me to start recognizing patterns in numbers, particularly when performing the [. . .]
Hartmut
+ First we smash all the (electronic*) calculators. Get the logarithm table and/or the slide rule back. That's how one teaches the basics! In all seriousness, I work as [. . .]
hairshirthedonist

All this math talk has me celebrating pi, but not exactly.

Pro Bono

Perhaps the greatest calculator, unmentioned in Devlin's article, was Kepler, who worked out his laws of planetary motion from Brahe's observations.

Snarki, child of Loki
+ For any mathematician alive today, mathematics is a subject that studies formally-defined concepts, with a focus on the establishment of truth (based on accepted axioms) Absolutely, [. . .]
liberal japonicus
+ I’m on my phone, so can’t give links, but I encourage a dive into how japanese teach math vs US methods. A couple of points [. . .]
nous
+ Here's a post from Keith Devlin working through some thoughts about the tension between calculation and mathematical thinking. https://devlinsangle.blogspot.com/2018/05/calculation-was-price-we-used-to-have.html For any mathematician alive today, mathematics is a [. . .]
wj
+ I suppose I can see how, if everybody who knows how to read** has a phone/computer in their hip pocket, knowing basic arithmetic might be [. . .]
Pro Bono
+ I was taught using the School Mathematics Project, which seemed OK to me. But I may not be one of the "normal people". I suggest that [. . .]
wj
+ New Math was the same sort of thing. It pushed a much broader view of what math was than just the algorithms. Look, long division [. . .]
wj
+ Camel notation* from computer programming would possibly be better: InternalCompustionEngine. It is interesting that it is widely used in domain names, e.g. KaiserPermanente.org Clearly [. . .]
liberal japonicus

Charles, I gotta ask, don’t you wonder about quoting an LLM that can call itself ‘MechaHitler’?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/why-does-the-ai-powered-chatbot-grok-post-false-offensive-things-on-x

liberal japonicus

Charles, I gotta ask, don’t you wonder about quoting an LLM that can call itself ‘MechaHitler’?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/why-does-the-ai-powered-chatbot-grok-post-false-offensive-things-on-x

liberal japonicus
+ I'm not sure if I'd be so harsh on the Roman alphabet. You don't want a system that encodes everything. Something that floors my students is [. . .]
Hartmut
+ Michael, the scrambling thing is called Typoglycemia. In German it's Buchstabensalat (letter salad) and at a pedagocic course I had to suffer through at university [. . .]
CharlesWT

Is this just an English thing?
According to Grok:
Scrambled Words Across Languages

Michael Cain
+ "Whole language" may have been a wrong turn if it really resulted in ignoring phonetics (I doubt that it really did in practice), but the [. . .]
skeptonomist
+ "it radically rewrote the rules of literacy for tens of thousands of children seemingly overnight." There are always stories about how miraculous various programs and phonics [. . .]
Michael Cain
+ It's just convention that one does not write railwaystation or particleaccelerator or internalcombustionengine but imo those are perceived as units. German also has the useful convention [. . .]
liberal japonicus
+ A couple of things about reading. It's a bit like second language acquisition, in that no one is guaranteed to acquire reading. There is a [. . .]
Snarki, child of Loki

"A very rare exception is suovetaurilia"
Thanks, Harmut for introducing us to the ancient Roman form of Turducken.

Hartmut
+ wj, imo English de facto has composite words, just not writing them as such (keeping the parts separate, not even using hyphens). It's just convention [. . .]
nous
+ I'm puzzled by this. I'm not good at languages, relative to my other skills, but switching alphabets - Cyrillic, Greek, Georgian... is trivial. It's not onerous, [. . .]
wj
+ In Latin one has to invent new words for concepts Cicero&Co. did not yet possess and would probably not understand. Greek (unlike classical Latin) allows [. . .]
Pro Bono
+ ...the alphabet contributes somewhat to that difficulty... I'm puzzled by this. I'm not good at languages, relative to my other skills, but switching alphabets - Cyrillic, [. . .]
Pro Bono
+ India, with its huge population, already uses it because its people speak 5 mutually unintelligible native languages Off the top of my head, Hindi, Urdu, Bengali, [. . .]
liberal japonicus
+ It occurs to me that a lot of education should be guiding people to what they are good at. I always thought I was good [. . .]
Hartmut
+ Ancient Greek is far more versatile than Latin but also quite a bit more difficult. I never really got the hang of it (in 3.5 [. . .]
nous
+ Instant translation is fine for functional and transactional language, but it hits its limits pretty quickly as language complexity increases and becomes problematic for understanding [. . .]
novakant
+ Why learn, if there is an instant translator? I don't see that happening in complex, real-life contexts. It's hard enough to make sense of people in [. . .]
nous
+ In case anyone is interested in the subject (and in lieu of fraught AI summaries): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_as_a_lingua_franca It's entirely possible that English will become the lingua franca for [. . .]
Hartmut
+ Or kill it altogether. Why learn, if there is an instant translator? If everyone has a babelfish in his or her ear, the need disappears [. . .]
CharlesWT

Real-time translation and communicating with devices in any language the user chooses could lower the pressure to learn more than one language.

novakant
+ I don't think subjugated peoples or immigrants are relevant examples. You are talking about e.g. the French not speaking French anymore - that's never going [. . .]
wj
+ Sorry if I misunderstand you, but are you saying that the use of national languages in the native countries will disappear or be reduced? I [. . .]
Michael Cain
+ I have the suspicion that English will eventually end up as the world language. More than 30 years ago now, I spent some time working with [. . .]
Snarki, child of Loki
+ Re: changing systems of roman-alphabet spellings in japanese: it would be good to get Hartmut's input, since (IIRC) there was a systematic change in "official" [. . .]
novakant
+ I have the suspicion that English will eventually end up as the world language. There will no doubt be long and bitter fights to preserve [. . .]
wj
+ I am involved in an international organization (ICANN, if you care). I have a nagging (unspoken) embarrassment because everybody speaks English. Most of [. . .]
GftNC
+ I'm just watching an hour long Channel 4 Dispatches documentary on the Ubu-Putin relationship. Very interesting compilation, with good sources, drawing a lot of [. . .]
wj
+ It's as if someone had deliberately did a lot of work to make it really, Really, REALLY look like a high-level conspiracy. Of course, it doesn't [. . .]
GftNC
+ I've just watched a Daily Beast interview with Tina Brown, who commissioned and ran, when she was still with the Daily Beast, the first really [. . .]
Snarki, child of Loki
+ Acosta, fed prosecutor that let Epstein off with a wrist slap on Federal charges, then got a Trump Sec. Labor job. FL state charges could have [. . .]
hairshirthedonist
+ Just because there are people who turn this into a wild conspiracy story that can be used for partisan purposes doesn't mean that there is [. . .]
novakant
+ I know that the mainstream Dem attitude is that all this conspiracy crap is bad and should not be encouraged I just don't get the Dems [. . .]
Cheez Whiz
+ The Epstein narrative is an article of faith among the Believers and a very profitable story arc that never gets old for a host of [. . .]