The Republican party message is a fairy tale about how the good Republican party will save the good people from the existential threat presented by the rest of us.
My sense is that MAGA people are generally full of fear.
They're gonna take my guns. They're letting a lot of brown people in so that white people are outnumbered. Some Mexican is gonna take my job, or, if you're white collar, some South Asian is gonna take my job. They're gonna chop my kid's genitals off. They're gonna let great big guys play on my daughter's soccer team and she's gonna get run over (my (D) House Rep came out with that one).
There are actually some legitimate concerns in all of the above, and there are sensible conversations to have about them. Those conversations are not available because everybody is so freaking hyped up.
And then there are the folks whose point of view basically my life's good, I'm making money, I want to keep it that way, and if it means tasering some brown person mowing somebody's lawn or working in a restaurant kitchen or mopping floors in a hospital, I'm OK with that.
I have a friend who's an academic, a professor of psychology, who has been involved in this project for a few years trying to find ways to "bridge the divide". His approach is to get people to talk to each other, listen to each other, and try to establish some kind of empathetic connection.
My question to him is always, where the hell is that going to happen? And how are you going to scale that to a level that is going to have an actual effect on the situation we find ourselves in?
It's a mess. I have no solution. Find whatever ways are available to you to mitigate whatever harms you can, and do those.
But I don't see a path to persuading committed MAGAs to change their minds. Even if it all falls to shit around them, they'll find a way to blame on somebody, anybody, other than Trump.
He's their champion, their idol, their savior. That's no exaggeration.
2025-09-17 20:11:28
I generally do not engage in discussions about politics with Trump supporters. I'm fine with talking with them about pretty much anything else.
There are a couple of people - long time friends - that I have had short political conversations with. In those cases, I haven't really brought up facts etc. I just say "I have no use for Trump, he's an asshole and a crook." Or something to that effect. And the conversation moves on to other topics. They're not really that curious about, or interested in, why I think that, it just places me in one bucket or other in their mind and the topic is done.
Once in a while I'll engage with someone online, usually FB, but that also doesn't get to the point of something like conversation. It's more you stated your position, I've stated mine, and move on.
The thing is, I don't think that many Trump supporters are that invested in arguments from fact or reason. It seems more vibe-y. Trying to persuade someone away from that position is less like engaging in thoughtful discussion of ideas, and more like trying to tell someone they shouldn't support their favorite sports team.
People have to experience the real human cost of this stuff before they'll change their mind. Like, someone they care about getting grabbed by ICE, or getting kicked off of Medicaid. Even then, they may find it difficult to impossible to give up their "team" identity. They'll just blame fate, or the "deep state", or similar.
I really don't know what the way out of all of this is. To some degree, all of the toxic stuff that Trump et al traffic in is stuff that's been part of the American consciousness since day 1. And people love being told they are special, they are the best, anyone who doesn't see that is just picking on them.
I don't think Trump et al have the resources or the wit to make the big agenda - Project 2025 and stuff like it - happen in full. There are too many different agendas going on with these guys, the country is just physically too large and various to lock down, and too many of the folks in the administration are just plain stupid.
But they're gonna break a lot of stuff before they are through, and I have no idea what things will look like when they're done.
So I've kind of arrived at the point of not trying to change anybody's mind about anything, I'm just waiting for this particular fever to run its course and hoping that something worthwhile is left when it's over.
The Republican party message is a fairy tale about how the good Republican party will save the good people from the existential threat presented by the rest of us.
My sense is that MAGA people are generally full of fear.
They're gonna take my guns. They're letting a lot of brown people in so that white people are outnumbered. Some Mexican is gonna take my job, or, if you're white collar, some South Asian is gonna take my job. They're gonna chop my kid's genitals off. They're gonna let great big guys play on my daughter's soccer team and she's gonna get run over (my (D) House Rep came out with that one).
There are actually some legitimate concerns in all of the above, and there are sensible conversations to have about them. Those conversations are not available because everybody is so freaking hyped up.
And then there are the folks whose point of view basically my life's good, I'm making money, I want to keep it that way, and if it means tasering some brown person mowing somebody's lawn or working in a restaurant kitchen or mopping floors in a hospital, I'm OK with that.
I have a friend who's an academic, a professor of psychology, who has been involved in this project for a few years trying to find ways to "bridge the divide". His approach is to get people to talk to each other, listen to each other, and try to establish some kind of empathetic connection.
My question to him is always, where the hell is that going to happen? And how are you going to scale that to a level that is going to have an actual effect on the situation we find ourselves in?
It's a mess. I have no solution. Find whatever ways are available to you to mitigate whatever harms you can, and do those.
But I don't see a path to persuading committed MAGAs to change their minds. Even if it all falls to shit around them, they'll find a way to blame on somebody, anybody, other than Trump.
He's their champion, their idol, their savior. That's no exaggeration.
I generally do not engage in discussions about politics with Trump supporters. I'm fine with talking with them about pretty much anything else.
There are a couple of people - long time friends - that I have had short political conversations with. In those cases, I haven't really brought up facts etc. I just say "I have no use for Trump, he's an asshole and a crook." Or something to that effect. And the conversation moves on to other topics. They're not really that curious about, or interested in, why I think that, it just places me in one bucket or other in their mind and the topic is done.
Once in a while I'll engage with someone online, usually FB, but that also doesn't get to the point of something like conversation. It's more you stated your position, I've stated mine, and move on.
The thing is, I don't think that many Trump supporters are that invested in arguments from fact or reason. It seems more vibe-y. Trying to persuade someone away from that position is less like engaging in thoughtful discussion of ideas, and more like trying to tell someone they shouldn't support their favorite sports team.
People have to experience the real human cost of this stuff before they'll change their mind. Like, someone they care about getting grabbed by ICE, or getting kicked off of Medicaid. Even then, they may find it difficult to impossible to give up their "team" identity. They'll just blame fate, or the "deep state", or similar.
I really don't know what the way out of all of this is. To some degree, all of the toxic stuff that Trump et al traffic in is stuff that's been part of the American consciousness since day 1. And people love being told they are special, they are the best, anyone who doesn't see that is just picking on them.
I don't think Trump et al have the resources or the wit to make the big agenda - Project 2025 and stuff like it - happen in full. There are too many different agendas going on with these guys, the country is just physically too large and various to lock down, and too many of the folks in the administration are just plain stupid.
But they're gonna break a lot of stuff before they are through, and I have no idea what things will look like when they're done.
So I've kind of arrived at the point of not trying to change anybody's mind about anything, I'm just waiting for this particular fever to run its course and hoping that something worthwhile is left when it's over.