You know, I really don't think there's that much disagreement here on this. It was clear from the piece that Butcher's repeated results were largely to do with her empathy and care for her dogs, and as a result it's great to see that her example has changed norms in that sport.
All I was trying to say was that it would be reductive to imply (which nous did not) that any female excellence in sport, or artistic pursuits, was because of the fact that women intrinsically have more care and empathy than men. Maybe they do, and maybe they don't. We'll never know unless and until on a large scale boys and girls are brought up the same, with the same expectations, from birth.
Meanwhile, on the question of soft=weak, I imagine that most of us find the behaviour of the Trump administration as pathetic as I do. Leaving aside their anti-DEI initiatives, which have a complicated twining of ideological motivations in addition to this equation, I can't be alone here in finding their absurd cosplay military posturing (Department of War, our "warriors" etc) the perfect illustration of arrested adolescent males desperately grasping for proof of their machismo quotient.
1 week ago
lj, I'd be delighted (and the world would be a better place) if everyone demonstrated care and empathy, and I'm definitely not talking about "giving women an out". But when I used the word "necessarily", I was talking about the implication that these characteristics are a prerequisite for strength and excellence in women whereas, although in my opinion they are important and hugely desirable in human beings, it is possible for a woman to be a strong, excellent performer of whatever sport, art form etc without those qualities being the obvious basis or baseline for the talent. "Caring" and "empathy" are so stereotypically part of what constitutes femininity in the world in which we live, that I think it important to retain the idea that women, like men, can be exceptionally good at something without a particularly high credit balance of those qualities.
1 week ago
That's an interesting piece, nous, and I was glad to learn about Butcher. She sounds great. But I am slightly uneasy about any suggestion (which to be clear you weren't making, but which seems to be behind the last sentence you quote) that the strength and excellence of women should necessarily be grounded in their caring and empathy, which after all are qualities that are considered traditionally "feminine". Now clearly, these qualities were considered by men to be antithetical to the world of the Iditarod until eventually the results spoke for themselves. But if the main point you are making is that men should/can no longer see themselves as the gatekeepers of "the rules" in traditional pursuits, then you get no argument from me.
2 weeks ago
It's perfectly possible to be knowledgeable, hardworking and sensitive about music, while also being such an unreflecting product of the patriarchy that it never occurs to you that you are not entitled to comment on a talented young female musician's lack of "gravitas" and "modest" clothing. Pro Bono's link absolutely shows why she had had enough.
You know, I really don't think there's that much disagreement here on this. It was clear from the piece that Butcher's repeated results were largely to do with her empathy and care for her dogs, and as a result it's great to see that her example has changed norms in that sport.
All I was trying to say was that it would be reductive to imply (which nous did not) that any female excellence in sport, or artistic pursuits, was because of the fact that women intrinsically have more care and empathy than men. Maybe they do, and maybe they don't. We'll never know unless and until on a large scale boys and girls are brought up the same, with the same expectations, from birth.
Meanwhile, on the question of soft=weak, I imagine that most of us find the behaviour of the Trump administration as pathetic as I do. Leaving aside their anti-DEI initiatives, which have a complicated twining of ideological motivations in addition to this equation, I can't be alone here in finding their absurd cosplay military posturing (Department of War, our "warriors" etc) the perfect illustration of arrested adolescent males desperately grasping for proof of their machismo quotient.
lj, I'd be delighted (and the world would be a better place) if everyone demonstrated care and empathy, and I'm definitely not talking about "giving women an out". But when I used the word "necessarily", I was talking about the implication that these characteristics are a prerequisite for strength and excellence in women whereas, although in my opinion they are important and hugely desirable in human beings, it is possible for a woman to be a strong, excellent performer of whatever sport, art form etc without those qualities being the obvious basis or baseline for the talent. "Caring" and "empathy" are so stereotypically part of what constitutes femininity in the world in which we live, that I think it important to retain the idea that women, like men, can be exceptionally good at something without a particularly high credit balance of those qualities.
That's an interesting piece, nous, and I was glad to learn about Butcher. She sounds great. But I am slightly uneasy about any suggestion (which to be clear you weren't making, but which seems to be behind the last sentence you quote) that the strength and excellence of women should necessarily be grounded in their caring and empathy, which after all are qualities that are considered traditionally "feminine". Now clearly, these qualities were considered by men to be antithetical to the world of the Iditarod until eventually the results spoke for themselves. But if the main point you are making is that men should/can no longer see themselves as the gatekeepers of "the rules" in traditional pursuits, then you get no argument from me.
It's perfectly possible to be knowledgeable, hardworking and sensitive about music, while also being such an unreflecting product of the patriarchy that it never occurs to you that you are not entitled to comment on a talented young female musician's lack of "gravitas" and "modest" clothing. Pro Bono's link absolutely shows why she had had enough.