Adding to what cleek is saying: I think the chaos is causing them pain, but they are convinced that the people being targeted by Trump's cruelty deserve that pain, and they are more committed to seeing that pain subjected than they are to avoiding their own suffering in the process. They believe that they will be restored in the aftermath, and they get to witness the righteous retribution in the mean time as consolation for their own pain.
2026-02-10 21:00:12
On the Archie Bunker front, my impression from being a child when All in the Family was on TV was that kids got the correct impression of the character and "old people" were caught up in their pasts (just like that theme song). We all knew adults like Archie, but they had no cool factor. It was a decently effective inoculation against bigotry - not herd immunity effective (obviously), but it did keep bigotry isolated to pockets.
It probably looked a lot less definitive to adults, but those childhood impressions have staying power.
If we can win popular culture, we can influence a generation. Right now the RW are winning parts of that (young men and misogyny), but I don't think their grip is as firm as they wish, and people like Bad Bunny are giving them an alternative masculinity that doesn't put them in opposition with the young women whose approval they so desperately wish to receive.
2026-02-10 18:43:05
wj - I’d go even further. Just strip it down to “Ick, those guys are all gross and pathetic pedos!” Once they’ve gotten themselves that far, they can take the next step themselves.
I'd say it depends on the context. In one-on-one conversation that second flex could be seen as a bit extra (to borrow my students' turn of phrase). In a group context, however, or in a public online discussion where you have a few people expressing their disgust at these revelations, I think it's helpful to confront the marginal supporter with a choice where their own ethos is imperiled. That's how they were walked into their support in the first place, and you have to pull them back the same way.
2026-02-10 06:26:17
I don't doubt it will take time to shift the conversation, or that a shift would not require constant maintenance and defense. We had shifted the conversation on race, and Archie Bunker and other sitcoms took the glamor out of bigotry, but now our social media overlords have brought that all storming back.
But we can't just cede all that ground for fear of offending the gouty toes of the people who voted for the Mandarin Menace. We have to make him look like the pathetic loser that he is, and make them feel as if supporting him makes that stink rub off on them as well. Looking at those approval ratings, this may be our best window for doing something like that.
Not "you are a loser for having been fooled by those guys," but "ick, those guys are all gross and pathetic pedos, do you really want to give them your support?"
2026-02-09 20:13:27
MAGA revels in their own victimhood and grievance. We should treat them to a taste of their own tactics and Swiftboat the hell out of their grievance narratives. Take their stories of bravery and defiance and turn them into mock epics.
Unlike the Swiftboaters, our version of things would be grounded in reality.
Then offer a different narrative (one in which every billionaire is a policy failure?) that allows individual MAGA supporters to find an alternate source of approval and restore their status, but only through active support of things that build the common good.
Yes, I know...a concept short on details, but it's better than cynicism and a sense of powerlessness as strategies for resistance.
2026-02-09 19:48:53
Yep, cleek, the powerful are insulated, but someone gives them power, and someone allows them to be insulated for the sake of that power - because they have some vested interest in the story of that power and what it does.
So we have to go after those support networks with all the ruthlessness with which they have gone after their preferred targets.
The right is a pyramid scheme, and pyramids are stable because of that wide base that distributes the weight of the top across so many at the bottom. If we want to topple that structure, we have to dismantle that base.
We need to make support of pathetic patriarchies a cause for ridicule. We need to take all the ways that they tell themselves they are being strong and admired and turn them into signs of weakness and insecurity.
We need new, better myths and narratives that show the old ones to be the empty, pathetic, weak dreams that they are.
2026-02-09 19:09:24
From GftNC's excerpted monologue: I got a message from Tommy Vietor, one of Barack Obama’s former staffers and now a successful podcaster with Pod Save America. He said: “If Epstein forces out Starmer and Trump survives, I will explode.” There are so many scandals in these files, yet the Trump-Bannon-Musk-Howard Lutnick crowd is getting off so lightly.
I hear a lot of friends (especially in Europe) who are despairing over this, and wondering what is wrong with the US that allows these elite rapists and sex pests to continue on without being held accountable.
The problem we have is one of passive voice.
The media - either scared of being accused of left-partisanship or being directed by elites with editorial power acting to protect themselves or their sex pest friends and associates - make sure that all of their moral dudgeon gets heaped on convenient scapegoats. They work hard not to subject themselves to any legal jeopardy or put themselves in the line of fire from the toxic firehose of hate that is our current administration. The correspondences get reported, but in a way that keeps them safely disconnected from any call-to-action.
But the real reason why none of the mighty are pulled down to face accountability is that the GOP controls all the levers of accountability, and we keep allowing the GOP supporters to duck their own culpability in keeping the rapists and sex pests in power. The DNC is still hoping to lure some of those Trumpy swingers away from the right and so cannot afford to insinuate that those swingers have been actively shielding those elite rapists from accountability by insisting that this is just the way that both sides are. Cynicism allows them to wash their own hands of the corruption that they have allowed on their own side in the name of fighting a holy crusade for the soul of America.
We must take away this cynicism dodge from them and make them feel shame for how they have enabled their elite to avoid accountability. We have to strip away the passive voice dodges and show them the active ways in which they maintain the public defenses that insulate the rapists and sex pests on their side from accountability.
And yes, we do need to flip congress and take those levers back, but we won't actually be able to effect any change until and unless we take away our collective ability to hide beneath the mask of cynicism and make justice a public imperative for anyone who wished to think themselves moral.
Adding to what cleek is saying: I think the chaos is causing them pain, but they are convinced that the people being targeted by Trump's cruelty deserve that pain, and they are more committed to seeing that pain subjected than they are to avoiding their own suffering in the process. They believe that they will be restored in the aftermath, and they get to witness the righteous retribution in the mean time as consolation for their own pain.
On the Archie Bunker front, my impression from being a child when All in the Family was on TV was that kids got the correct impression of the character and "old people" were caught up in their pasts (just like that theme song). We all knew adults like Archie, but they had no cool factor. It was a decently effective inoculation against bigotry - not herd immunity effective (obviously), but it did keep bigotry isolated to pockets.
It probably looked a lot less definitive to adults, but those childhood impressions have staying power.
If we can win popular culture, we can influence a generation. Right now the RW are winning parts of that (young men and misogyny), but I don't think their grip is as firm as they wish, and people like Bad Bunny are giving them an alternative masculinity that doesn't put them in opposition with the young women whose approval they so desperately wish to receive.
wj - I’d go even further. Just strip it down to “Ick, those guys are all gross and pathetic pedos!” Once they’ve gotten themselves that far, they can take the next step themselves.
I'd say it depends on the context. In one-on-one conversation that second flex could be seen as a bit extra (to borrow my students' turn of phrase). In a group context, however, or in a public online discussion where you have a few people expressing their disgust at these revelations, I think it's helpful to confront the marginal supporter with a choice where their own ethos is imperiled. That's how they were walked into their support in the first place, and you have to pull them back the same way.
I don't doubt it will take time to shift the conversation, or that a shift would not require constant maintenance and defense. We had shifted the conversation on race, and Archie Bunker and other sitcoms took the glamor out of bigotry, but now our social media overlords have brought that all storming back.
But we can't just cede all that ground for fear of offending the gouty toes of the people who voted for the Mandarin Menace. We have to make him look like the pathetic loser that he is, and make them feel as if supporting him makes that stink rub off on them as well. Looking at those approval ratings, this may be our best window for doing something like that.
Not "you are a loser for having been fooled by those guys," but "ick, those guys are all gross and pathetic pedos, do you really want to give them your support?"
MAGA revels in their own victimhood and grievance. We should treat them to a taste of their own tactics and Swiftboat the hell out of their grievance narratives. Take their stories of bravery and defiance and turn them into mock epics.
Unlike the Swiftboaters, our version of things would be grounded in reality.
Then offer a different narrative (one in which every billionaire is a policy failure?) that allows individual MAGA supporters to find an alternate source of approval and restore their status, but only through active support of things that build the common good.
Yes, I know...a concept short on details, but it's better than cynicism and a sense of powerlessness as strategies for resistance.
Yep, cleek, the powerful are insulated, but someone gives them power, and someone allows them to be insulated for the sake of that power - because they have some vested interest in the story of that power and what it does.
So we have to go after those support networks with all the ruthlessness with which they have gone after their preferred targets.
The right is a pyramid scheme, and pyramids are stable because of that wide base that distributes the weight of the top across so many at the bottom. If we want to topple that structure, we have to dismantle that base.
We need to make support of pathetic patriarchies a cause for ridicule. We need to take all the ways that they tell themselves they are being strong and admired and turn them into signs of weakness and insecurity.
We need new, better myths and narratives that show the old ones to be the empty, pathetic, weak dreams that they are.
From GftNC's excerpted monologue: I got a message from Tommy Vietor, one of Barack Obama’s former staffers and now a successful podcaster with Pod Save America. He said: “If Epstein forces out Starmer and Trump survives, I will explode.” There are so many scandals in these files, yet the Trump-Bannon-Musk-Howard Lutnick crowd is getting off so lightly.
I hear a lot of friends (especially in Europe) who are despairing over this, and wondering what is wrong with the US that allows these elite rapists and sex pests to continue on without being held accountable.
The problem we have is one of passive voice.
The media - either scared of being accused of left-partisanship or being directed by elites with editorial power acting to protect themselves or their sex pest friends and associates - make sure that all of their moral dudgeon gets heaped on convenient scapegoats. They work hard not to subject themselves to any legal jeopardy or put themselves in the line of fire from the toxic firehose of hate that is our current administration. The correspondences get reported, but in a way that keeps them safely disconnected from any call-to-action.
But the real reason why none of the mighty are pulled down to face accountability is that the GOP controls all the levers of accountability, and we keep allowing the GOP supporters to duck their own culpability in keeping the rapists and sex pests in power. The DNC is still hoping to lure some of those Trumpy swingers away from the right and so cannot afford to insinuate that those swingers have been actively shielding those elite rapists from accountability by insisting that this is just the way that both sides are. Cynicism allows them to wash their own hands of the corruption that they have allowed on their own side in the name of fighting a holy crusade for the soul of America.
We must take away this cynicism dodge from them and make them feel shame for how they have enabled their elite to avoid accountability. We have to strip away the passive voice dodges and show them the active ways in which they maintain the public defenses that insulate the rapists and sex pests on their side from accountability.
And yes, we do need to flip congress and take those levers back, but we won't actually be able to effect any change until and unless we take away our collective ability to hide beneath the mask of cynicism and make justice a public imperative for anyone who wished to think themselves moral.