Before ruminating, I will mention how odd I find it that Klein is lamenting the use of social pressure and shame in the aftermath of one person shooting another in the neck with a bolt-action rifle - that is, murdering another over political differences.
I felt oddly at home while visiting London many years ago. I haven't been back since. Aside from leaving a lot of people behind, my lack of UK citizenship, and the high cost of living there ... eh, never mind.
Seriously, though, I immediately felt like I belonged there.
Someone once said, “‘Home’ is where you bury your bone.”
Roger Waters wrote and sang a variation on that, the only one I was previously familiar with:
So, I don't feel alone on the weight of the stone
Now that I've found somewhere safe to bury my bone
And any fool knows a dog needs a home
A shelter from pigs on the wing
I never thought I'd paste a link to a facebook post, but here it is. A friend of mine shared it. The original poster is someone (I'm guessing an actual human) going by Cory Nichols. I haven't a clue who that is.
https://www.facebook.com/share/1DC6bLNdGj/
The first 20% or so:
The misinformation surrounding Charlie Kirk is astounding - and I’m not talking about average people sounding off on social media - I’m talking about the BS being spread by major news outlets.
While Kirk’s shooter was obviously overly steeped in internet whackadoo memelord culture - the “normies” don’t have a clue about how internet culture works at all.
Charlie Kirk wasn’t someone who was looking for honest debate. He was a political operative spreading hate and divisiveness. When you show his fans his racist, sexist or bigoted rhetoric - they defend it by saying “That’s not (racist, sexist, bigoted) - it’s true.” And that was his goal.
The whole “Prove Me Wrong” setup that made Kirk famous wasn’t really about proving anyone wrong. It was about creating content. Kirk mastered a specific type of performance that looked like debate but functioned more like a carefully orchestrated show designed to make his opponents look foolish and his positions seem unassailable.
What the writer gets into later tracks with some of the things nous has said about what constitutes meaningful dialogue.
Ta Nehisi writes the plain truth. Kirk was unabashedly a white Christian nationalist. For me, all his various bigotries flow from there.
No one who isn’t an immediate threat to others deserves to be shot. At the same time, it doesn’t make Kirk a good person simply because someone killed him.
I think my approach is a less formalized version of what nous described. If we disconnect completely and irreparably, the alienation from each other and the dehumanization of each other both become that much easier. That makes people more willing to harm each other in various ways, and that's dangerous for everyone.
Someone on another thread some time ago brought up one of the ways the divide between sides during The Troubles in Northern Ireland was narrowed. IIRC, it had much to do with talking about things other than politics to rehumanize each other.
I have a lot of friends on the right - people I've known since I was a kid. My approach these days is more or less the same as russell's. I talk about other stuff. A few of them will try to bait me into a debate on whatever topic has them spun up at the moment. It usually prompts me to say something like, just as one example, "Let's start with this: Do you think global warming is a hoax?" I respond to anything even close to a "yes" with, "There's no point in talking about this. How about those Phillies?"
I can usually play the argument we would have had in my head, anyway. I know these people.
I'm trying to guess how many of the people coming out of the woodwork to extol Kirk's virtue on social media since the shooting had much of an idea who he was or what he had to say before he was killed. I know a number of politically "conservative" people who are quick to form opinions and spout them off, but who aren't truly politically engaged or well informed. I could be underestimating how much he would have shown up on their feeds over the last few years, though, given their interests and clicking habits.
Kirk used his notions of civil discourse and open debate as cover for his bigotry. When I hear "Prove Me Wrong," I can only wonder why a normal person would need someone to prove such horrible ideas wrong.
I will gladly contribute from the large chest of doubloons I recently discovered in a shipwreck at the bottom of Horse Pond Bay, which is only ten feet deep. It's hard to believe no one got to it before me.
There are activists on the left bringing books into schools that are, at best, not age-appropriate or shouldn't be in schools at all.
Gotta cite? Either way, "activists" don't sound like people weilding sanctioned government power.
Removing books from school libraries isn't the same as banning them.
It is the same as banning them from the school-district libraries in question, which is what GftNC’s statement was limited to. But build your straw man and make your irrelevant point.
Is there a playbook for this, because it’s the same tired thing I’ve seen too many times?
Absolutist free-market ideology and anti-government rhetoric have poisoned the minds of too many. Ronald Reagan's trickle-down economics and his "nine most terrifying words" got "nice" people to buy into what it becoming a klepto-techno oligarchic feudalism.
I don't know how to convince people that they've been talked into becoming modern-day serfs when they blame everything on wokeness, immigrants, and what they think is socialism.
Just looked at Michael's handwriting, really has a French feel to it.
It's common knowledge that the French are fascinated by spider webs, like their oatmeal on the thinner side, and shave against the grain of their beards.
I've dabbled in handwriting analysis over the years. What I see is someone who is fascinated by spider webs, likes oatmeal on the thinner side, and shaves against the grain of his beard. I'm about 97.341% sure about all of that.
Then there’s prog metal, so, yeah…
I get annoyed with the metal technocrats. I can listen to clinical demonstrations of technical proficiency for a bit, but I can listen to 70s/Bon Scott AC/DC for who-knows-how-long. It’s not a contest. Make me feel something. (There’s also a happy medium, but the extremes are good for illustration.)
The album closer from Sabbath Bloody Sabbath starts with an arpeggiated acoustic guitar line that sounds like it comes straight out of a moody, early Genesis song. When the band comes in, it's built around strummed suspended chords that could be classic, early '70s Who, then this gives way to a chorus with a string arrangement - wholly unexpected, and hauntingly beautiful.
It's funny you used the word "moody," nous. I get a "Ride my See-Saw" (by The Moody Blues) vibe from that song.
Another song that's not quite as far as from Sabbath's familiar style, but still a bit different, is "Never Say Die." It's not exactly a happy song lyrically, but listening to it fills my heart with joy about as much as any song I can think of. (Needless to say, I might be a bit of a weirdo in that regard.)
I played with an electronic calculator when I was a kid. It allowed me to start recognizing patterns in numbers, particularly when performing the same calculation recursively. I'm reasonably sure I wasn't typical in that regard, but I wanted to mount some meager defense of electronic calculators.
On “Precursors”
Before ruminating, I will mention how odd I find it that Klein is lamenting the use of social pressure and shame in the aftermath of one person shooting another in the neck with a bolt-action rifle - that is, murdering another over political differences.
On “Rule Six, there is NO … Rule Six!…”
I felt oddly at home while visiting London many years ago. I haven't been back since. Aside from leaving a lot of people behind, my lack of UK citizenship, and the high cost of living there ... eh, never mind.
Seriously, though, I immediately felt like I belonged there.
"
Someone once said, “‘Home’ is where you bury your bone.”
Roger Waters wrote and sang a variation on that, the only one I was previously familiar with:
On “Precursors”
Maybe we need a "Meta Godwin's Law" regarding the probability that someone will invoke Godwin's Law.
"
Whose fault is that?
"
I never thought I'd paste a link to a facebook post, but here it is. A friend of mine shared it. The original poster is someone (I'm guessing an actual human) going by Cory Nichols. I haven't a clue who that is.
https://www.facebook.com/share/1DC6bLNdGj/
The first 20% or so:
What the writer gets into later tracks with some of the things nous has said about what constitutes meaningful dialogue.
"
Ta Nehisi writes the plain truth. Kirk was unabashedly a white Christian nationalist. For me, all his various bigotries flow from there.
No one who isn’t an immediate threat to others deserves to be shot. At the same time, it doesn’t make Kirk a good person simply because someone killed him.
On “Guestpost from Wonkie”
I think my approach is a less formalized version of what nous described. If we disconnect completely and irreparably, the alienation from each other and the dehumanization of each other both become that much easier. That makes people more willing to harm each other in various ways, and that's dangerous for everyone.
Someone on another thread some time ago brought up one of the ways the divide between sides during The Troubles in Northern Ireland was narrowed. IIRC, it had much to do with talking about things other than politics to rehumanize each other.
"
I have a lot of friends on the right - people I've known since I was a kid. My approach these days is more or less the same as russell's. I talk about other stuff. A few of them will try to bait me into a debate on whatever topic has them spun up at the moment. It usually prompts me to say something like, just as one example, "Let's start with this: Do you think global warming is a hoax?" I respond to anything even close to a "yes" with, "There's no point in talking about this. How about those Phillies?"
I can usually play the argument we would have had in my head, anyway. I know these people.
On “Kuzushi and Charlie Kirk”
I'm trying to guess how many of the people coming out of the woodwork to extol Kirk's virtue on social media since the shooting had much of an idea who he was or what he had to say before he was killed. I know a number of politically "conservative" people who are quick to form opinions and spout them off, but who aren't truly politically engaged or well informed. I could be underestimating how much he would have shown up on their feeds over the last few years, though, given their interests and clicking habits.
"
Kirk used his notions of civil discourse and open debate as cover for his bigotry. When I hear "Prove Me Wrong," I can only wonder why a normal person would need someone to prove such horrible ideas wrong.
On “What to do?”
I will gladly contribute from the large chest of doubloons I recently discovered in a shipwreck at the bottom of Horse Pond Bay, which is only ten feet deep. It's hard to believe no one got to it before me.
On “The Schadenfreude Express”
Proof means little without due process. Good luck.
"
There are activists on the left bringing books into schools that are, at best, not age-appropriate or shouldn't be in schools at all.
Gotta cite? Either way, "activists" don't sound like people weilding sanctioned government power.
"
Removing books from school libraries isn't the same as banning them.
It is the same as banning them from the school-district libraries in question, which is what GftNC’s statement was limited to. But build your straw man and make your irrelevant point.
Is there a playbook for this, because it’s the same tired thing I’ve seen too many times?
On “David Brooks in Laodicea”
Absolutist free-market ideology and anti-government rhetoric have poisoned the minds of too many. Ronald Reagan's trickle-down economics and his "nine most terrifying words" got "nice" people to buy into what it becoming a klepto-techno oligarchic feudalism.
I don't know how to convince people that they've been talked into becoming modern-day serfs when they blame everything on wokeness, immigrants, and what they think is socialism.
"
Hungry people don't stay hungry for long - RATM
On “A New Gilded Age”
GftNC, it made me a little nauseated. Weirdos in a bad way. I'd take an hour-long shower after being at that gathering.
On “An open thread”
Just looked at Michael's handwriting, really has a French feel to it.
It's common knowledge that the French are fascinated by spider webs, like their oatmeal on the thinner side, and shave against the grain of their beards.
"
I've dabbled in handwriting analysis over the years. What I see is someone who is fascinated by spider webs, likes oatmeal on the thinner side, and shaves against the grain of his beard. I'm about 97.341% sure about all of that.
On “Everyone is a hero in their own story”
Then there’s prog metal, so, yeah…
I get annoyed with the metal technocrats. I can listen to clinical demonstrations of technical proficiency for a bit, but I can listen to 70s/Bon Scott AC/DC for who-knows-how-long. It’s not a contest. Make me feel something. (There’s also a happy medium, but the extremes are good for illustration.)
"
The album closer from Sabbath Bloody Sabbath starts with an arpeggiated acoustic guitar line that sounds like it comes straight out of a moody, early Genesis song. When the band comes in, it's built around strummed suspended chords that could be classic, early '70s Who, then this gives way to a chorus with a string arrangement - wholly unexpected, and hauntingly beautiful.
It's funny you used the word "moody," nous. I get a "Ride my See-Saw" (by The Moody Blues) vibe from that song.
Another song that's not quite as far as from Sabbath's familiar style, but still a bit different, is "Never Say Die." It's not exactly a happy song lyrically, but listening to it fills my heart with joy about as much as any song I can think of. (Needless to say, I might be a bit of a weirdo in that regard.)
On “The law of the letter”
Michael Cain, your wife-to-be from before you knew her exudes goodness in that photo. Top of the preservation list, I imagine.
"
I played with an electronic calculator when I was a kid. It allowed me to start recognizing patterns in numbers, particularly when performing the same calculation recursively. I'm reasonably sure I wasn't typical in that regard, but I wanted to mount some meager defense of electronic calculators.
"
All this math talk has me celebrating pi, but not exactly.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.