Thanks so much for posting that. I'm tempted to post Rick Blaine's line at the end of Casablanca, but I don't want to scare you off.
I wonder if it is a possibility that, after all the dust has settled (if it does) and the MAGAists are cast out (if they are), we would have a round of amendments. ERA, possibly expanded to deal with the Roberts court's assaults on it, something dealing with tariffs, an amendment specifically about environmental protection, possibly couched in terms of the rights of future generations, would be what I would hope for. I realize this is improbably optimistic, but that's what's for dinner.
Thanks for the observations and comments. After I posted this, LGM posted about another person I should have suggested as a precursor, Alexey Stakhanov. When lining them up, Horst Wessel, because he was shot by a communist, is probably the closest parallel, whereas Lei Feng supposedly died when a telephone pole hit him while he was guiding a truck, (which I take to be part of an electrification project for China along the lines of 'serve the people'), while Stakhanov lived to the age of 71. Nous' point about the 'soldier of Christ' aspect of Wessel and Kirk has me wonder why these conservative types are so damn violent. You can't really imagine their role models dying while helping out others, or living to an old age. This plugs in to my idée fixe, which is that the problem with Western society is the hard nougat filling of individuality.
Interesting article. The narrative of how the Supreme Court came to be so weaponized is good, and the role that Originalism played in it is plausible. I'd like a much more solid set of grounds laid out for that, but that would likely push the length of the article beyond what a popular venue like The Atlantic would support - more of an academic press book argument than a middlebrow magazine argument.
The part I found weakest, though, was the connection implied between Originalism and the abandonment of constitutional amendment as a path to change. It seems to me that the procedures for amendment codified in the Constitution themselves account for why that process has been abandoned. The threshold of support required for amending the Constitution is excessive.
The only times it has ever worked, it did so because of either war or an extension of franchise to a broader group of Americans that created the potential for new cross-cutting alliances which could overcome those difficulties. I don't see that Originalism has altered anything with regard to amendment. What it has done is given conservative legal activists a recognizable brand on which to build a legal sophistry that can provide cover for a judiciary coup.
The Constitution is deeply flawed and limiting. It probably should have failed in 1860 or in 1929, and only extraordinary extra-Constitutional means preserved the nation in both instances, but the flaws remain. We would probably be better off with a new governing document, but there is no way that the nation would ever go back together as a 50-state union if the document went away. We've lost our sense of a common good.
I have had to admit that I will be the slowest person on the trail from now on, because the people I used to pass have all got e-bikes. I’m old-fashioned, I guess — the goal is to conquer the uphill bits on your own, not to pass the job over to some batteries.
I hear you on the e-bike thing despite riding one myself most of the time. Paradoxically, I too want the uphills to be a challenge, and chose my e-bike because it promised *less* than the other e-bikes. I wanted minimal added weight and the ability to be able to set the pedal assist low enough to keep the rides challenging and natural feeling, with just enough of an electric tailwind to make the steepest parts of the trails rideable, rather than forcing me to hike-a-bike. It's not quite as challenging as riding full-acoustic, but it reduces the effort by a third, while doubling the time I spend riding, so it's a net gain for my fitness.
Alas, the rest of the e-bike knuckleheads I encounter seem to be addicted to the thrill and illusion provided by the boost, or are wanting the motor to shuttle them up the hills so that they can bypass the struggle and just get the downhill rush. And the social riders among them are hopeless on this front. The most competitive among them always rush to be first up and are in a hurry to get to the gnarly bits, and they haze everyone else into conforming and upping their boost just to keep from being dropped. Most of the group would be happier with less boost, but the biggest man-child always seems to drive the consensus.
I am in the process of turning my older, non-electric, hardtail mtb into a more gravel-and-excursion oriented bike for when weather limits me to the mixed-use bike paths. Those hills are much more manageable than the local wilderness trails.
My latest tests show my cholesterol getting out of hand despite having a healthy diet and getting the recommended exercise. Not a surprise, given the family history. Will probably end up on statins soon enough. Diet and exercise have held off genetics for a decade-and-a-half longer than most of my line, but there's only so much to be done with that.
For someone soon to turn 72, I seem to have remarkably few aches and pains. My sister is younger, and I have quit comparing notes with her because I feel guilty. Given our two histories, I'm the one you would expect to have painful worn-out joints*. All of mine seem to be cranking along fine. She's replaced both knees, one hip, one shoulder, and had an ankle rebuilt.
For the record, last time out on the bicycle I did 20 miles. I have had to admit that I will be the slowest person on the trail from now on, because the people I used to pass have all got e-bikes. I'm old-fashioned, I guess -- the goal is to conquer the uphill bits on your own, not to pass the job over to some batteries.
* Bicycling since I was six with the inevitable falls, plus off-and-on golf, racquet sports, soccer, basketball, softball, hiking/climbing, fencing, lugging around children (and now grandchildren). A variety of joints occasionally sprained, with only amateur stretching and PT routines during recovery. Tossed down the side of a mountain by a horse once.
In the hope that I am done going into moderation, and further to wonkie's point about Goebbels, this is from the NYT in 1939, under the headline Goebbels Ends Careers of Five 'Aryan' Actors Who Made Witticisms About the Nazi Regime:
I don't think that the MAGA movement has an ideology or philosophy. I think they are they kind of people who are susceptible to manipulation by leaders who present as strong defenders and appeal to their need to invest faith in a savior. It doesn't matter that the savior is saving them from an imaginary threat. in this case fear that nonwhite people might participate in American life on the same basis as the MAGAs.
I normally disable what cookies I can when on any new site. I do not recall being asked about this when I first logged on here. Apparently, I have "Third Party Cookies" enabled, for what that's worth.
It would be that very sense of realism that would make him persona non grata in the current GOP.
Imo that also killed the reelection of the elder Bush (pragmatists don't get canonized, in particular if they blaspheme against the party saint).
real St.Ronnie (as vile as many of his policies were) would be hunted out of the party these days as a RINO
Or, given half a chance, purge most of the "Christian nationalists" (and pretty much all of the Trumpys) from the party. The left has demonized Reagan so long** that it's easy to lose track of the fact that he actually cared about this country. And not just some delusional image of what it actually never was. Also, when some piece of ideology turned out to work in the real world, he would accept that reality and change. Something the current Republican Party is either unwilling or flat unable to do.
** Mind, I had little use for him. Not as President. Not when he was Governor here.
OK, just got up and posted the pending comments, which were only GftNC and wonkie. I'll contact you both off list this weekend and try to figure out what's up.
Well, they used to canonize Reagan, although the real St.Ronnie (as vile as many of his policies were) would be hunted out of the party these days as a RINO. It was and still is blasphemous to tell that he raised taxes (12 times iirc) when he realized that his initial tax cuts would have led straight to national bankruptcy.
The Roman governor of the Roman province of Judea allegedly crucified Jesus of Nazareth for calling himself (or being called by others, perhaps) "King of the Jews". So, yes?
MAGAts are generally ignorant of the content, let alone the history, of their "faith". Or maybe not. Maybe "Christian Nationalist" is not an oxymoron but the modern-day culmination of the Jesus cult. Forget that whatever Jesus of Nazareth thought of "nationalism", American "patriotism" never crossed his mind. Ignore what namby-pamby Christians have to say about welcoming the stranger or caring for the poor, it's what the multimillionaire pastors of megachurches have to say that counts. Or what "martyrs" like Charlie Kirk have to say, for that matter.
The Gospel According to Saint Charles of Kirk got a curious sort of publicity boost by dint of his death. On the one hand, his "martyrdom" is purported to require veneration of his dedication to spreading his gospel. On the other hand, quoting it verbatim is blasphemy, according to the MAGAt Inquisition.
The MAGAts are determined to canonize Saint Charlie, but to forbid quoting him. Come to think of it, they don't like libruls quoting Jesus of Nazareth either.
I think my approach is a less formalized version of what nous described. If we disconnect completely and irreparably, the alienation from each other and the dehumanization of each other both become that much easier. That makes people more willing to harm each other in various ways, and that's dangerous for everyone.
Someone on another thread some time ago brought up one of the ways the divide between sides during The Troubles in Northern Ireland was narrowed. IIRC, it had much to do with talking about things other than politics to rehumanize each other.
I thought I would see how long that last comment was in moderation, because I think last night the average for mine was about 40 minutes. It's now 21.02, so it's been in almost three hours, and I'm bored with checking on it, so this is just a catch up before I shut up shop. As I mentioned, all my boxes except website are filled and ticked. And Priest, the time stamp seems to be UK Summer Time, which is GMT+1.
On the Horst Wessel side of it, though, much of the religious right is referring to Kirk as "a warrior for God" and "a soldier of Christ." The Christian side of the culture wars is heavily influenced by the "spiritual warfare" types. They literally believe that they are engaged in spiritual combat against demons who have jurisdiction over geographical areas. It's very animist - I'm wondering if it isn't to Christianity what Shinto is to Buddhism. As such, I expect more hagiography, and more militant hagiography, as they seek to meld temporal military service with spiritual military service in their political theology. It's a very small narrative step from the valorization of the fallen soldier as political martyr and extending it to all of the Left Behind mythology and fantasies of one big, final End Times battle for the soul of humanity. Kirk is ideally situated for this project.
That's certainly what the Republicans are doing: deifying Charlie because that's how they legitimize themselves and delegitimize everyone else.
I've been thinking about Ezra Klein and his horrible fascist-enabling article about Kirk "doing politics the right way." Apparently, Ezra thinks that having public discussions where a hater gets to air the hateful crap is doing politics the right way.
I'm more in agreement with this guy who says in the article that he doesn't debate fascists. Why not? Because they are wrong, so there's nothing to discuss.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-problem-with-debating-fascists-from-a-guy-who-s-debated-just-about-everyone/ar-AA1MOhSE?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=68cc404ce9b94b64b1660870857945a1&ei=21
Medhi Hasan engages in lots of debates, not to change the mind of the person he's talking to, but to reach the people who are watching and listening.
We need to move the Overton Window so that discourse that promotes stochastic violence is not debated or discussed as if there was legitimacy to it. Just called out for what it is and rejected.
To remarkable degree, Republican messaging uses the precepts set out by Goebbels. One is to give people the thrill of fear, basically something to be outraged about that isn't real. Kind of like the fun of being scared at a horror movie. For literally decades, Republican messaging has consisted of telling people to be afraid of not-real while also telling them that the real is fake. So "They are going to take your guns!!!!" and "There is no climate change." War on Christmas, trans kids, white people are going to be a minority!!!! ect. From the safety of their armchairs, life becomes an exciting experience of being scared/outraged over imaginary threats, which is a reinforcing experience. It's fun. Allows the participant to feel virtuous and vicariously heroic by voting for the party that will smite the evil enemy without ever being in any real danger. Meanwhile, I'm sure that those people worry about real problems, but election after election they vote to fight the imaginary ones.
I think leading Dems are sort of hoping that the economy will be the real problem that breaks through this bullshit and gets enough voters to vote D to give the Dems some power in Congress and at the state level. Hence "kitchen table issues" versus R culture war bullshit. It worked in Sioux City at a special election.
On the other hand, Missouri, which is a hell hole of bad government, just keeps electing Republicans over and over.
I keep thinking of the Depression, when enough voters were suffering enough to give a reform politicians real power. Once the suffering receded to being mostly minorities, that desire for reform and improvement, that desire for government as a service for the common good, started losing elections to "I got mine, screw you, and besides you are just a (fill in the hater crap du jour)."
It is a privilege to be outraged all the time about imaginary shit.
On “An experimental first post”
Thanks so much for posting that. I'm tempted to post Rick Blaine's line at the end of Casablanca, but I don't want to scare you off.
I wonder if it is a possibility that, after all the dust has settled (if it does) and the MAGAists are cast out (if they are), we would have a round of amendments. ERA, possibly expanded to deal with the Roberts court's assaults on it, something dealing with tariffs, an amendment specifically about environmental protection, possibly couched in terms of the rights of future generations, would be what I would hope for. I realize this is improbably optimistic, but that's what's for dinner.
On “Precursors”
Thanks for the observations and comments. After I posted this, LGM posted about another person I should have suggested as a precursor, Alexey Stakhanov. When lining them up, Horst Wessel, because he was shot by a communist, is probably the closest parallel, whereas Lei Feng supposedly died when a telephone pole hit him while he was guiding a truck, (which I take to be part of an electrification project for China along the lines of 'serve the people'), while Stakhanov lived to the age of 71. Nous' point about the 'soldier of Christ' aspect of Wessel and Kirk has me wonder why these conservative types are so damn violent. You can't really imagine their role models dying while helping out others, or living to an old age. This plugs in to my idée fixe, which is that the problem with Western society is the hard nougat filling of individuality.
On “An experimental first post”
Interesting article. The narrative of how the Supreme Court came to be so weaponized is good, and the role that Originalism played in it is plausible. I'd like a much more solid set of grounds laid out for that, but that would likely push the length of the article beyond what a popular venue like The Atlantic would support - more of an academic press book argument than a middlebrow magazine argument.
The part I found weakest, though, was the connection implied between Originalism and the abandonment of constitutional amendment as a path to change. It seems to me that the procedures for amendment codified in the Constitution themselves account for why that process has been abandoned. The threshold of support required for amending the Constitution is excessive.
https://www.californialawreview.org/print/the-worlds-most-difficult-constitution-to-amend
The only times it has ever worked, it did so because of either war or an extension of franchise to a broader group of Americans that created the potential for new cross-cutting alliances which could overcome those difficulties. I don't see that Originalism has altered anything with regard to amendment. What it has done is given conservative legal activists a recognizable brand on which to build a legal sophistry that can provide cover for a judiciary coup.
The Constitution is deeply flawed and limiting. It probably should have failed in 1860 or in 1929, and only extraordinary extra-Constitutional means preserved the nation in both instances, but the flaws remain. We would probably be better off with a new governing document, but there is no way that the nation would ever go back together as a 50-state union if the document went away. We've lost our sense of a common good.
On “We are all Usain Bolt now”
I have had to admit that I will be the slowest person on the trail from now on, because the people I used to pass have all got e-bikes. I’m old-fashioned, I guess — the goal is to conquer the uphill bits on your own, not to pass the job over to some batteries.
I hear you on the e-bike thing despite riding one myself most of the time. Paradoxically, I too want the uphills to be a challenge, and chose my e-bike because it promised *less* than the other e-bikes. I wanted minimal added weight and the ability to be able to set the pedal assist low enough to keep the rides challenging and natural feeling, with just enough of an electric tailwind to make the steepest parts of the trails rideable, rather than forcing me to hike-a-bike. It's not quite as challenging as riding full-acoustic, but it reduces the effort by a third, while doubling the time I spend riding, so it's a net gain for my fitness.
Alas, the rest of the e-bike knuckleheads I encounter seem to be addicted to the thrill and illusion provided by the boost, or are wanting the motor to shuttle them up the hills so that they can bypass the struggle and just get the downhill rush. And the social riders among them are hopeless on this front. The most competitive among them always rush to be first up and are in a hurry to get to the gnarly bits, and they haze everyone else into conforming and upping their boost just to keep from being dropped. Most of the group would be happier with less boost, but the biggest man-child always seems to drive the consensus.
I am in the process of turning my older, non-electric, hardtail mtb into a more gravel-and-excursion oriented bike for when weather limits me to the mixed-use bike paths. Those hills are much more manageable than the local wilderness trails.
My latest tests show my cholesterol getting out of hand despite having a healthy diet and getting the recommended exercise. Not a surprise, given the family history. Will probably end up on statins soon enough. Diet and exercise have held off genetics for a decade-and-a-half longer than most of my line, but there's only so much to be done with that.
"
For someone soon to turn 72, I seem to have remarkably few aches and pains. My sister is younger, and I have quit comparing notes with her because I feel guilty. Given our two histories, I'm the one you would expect to have painful worn-out joints*. All of mine seem to be cranking along fine. She's replaced both knees, one hip, one shoulder, and had an ankle rebuilt.
For the record, last time out on the bicycle I did 20 miles. I have had to admit that I will be the slowest person on the trail from now on, because the people I used to pass have all got e-bikes. I'm old-fashioned, I guess -- the goal is to conquer the uphill bits on your own, not to pass the job over to some batteries.
* Bicycling since I was six with the inevitable falls, plus off-and-on golf, racquet sports, soccer, basketball, softball, hiking/climbing, fencing, lugging around children (and now grandchildren). A variety of joints occasionally sprained, with only amateur stretching and PT routines during recovery. Tossed down the side of a mountain by a horse once.
On “Guestpost from Wonkie”
In the hope that I am done going into moderation, and further to wonkie's point about Goebbels, this is from the NYT in 1939, under the headline Goebbels Ends Careers of Five 'Aryan' Actors Who Made Witticisms About the Nazi Regime:
https://www.nytimes.com/1939/02/04/archives/goebbels-ends-careers-of-five-aryan-actors-who-made-witticisms.html?unlocked_article_code=1.nE8.IExY.Y2cofB8EzqsL&smid=url-share
On “Precursors”
I don't think that the MAGA movement has an ideology or philosophy. I think they are they kind of people who are susceptible to manipulation by leaders who present as strong defenders and appeal to their need to invest faith in a savior. It doesn't matter that the savior is saving them from an imaginary threat. in this case fear that nonwhite people might participate in American life on the same basis as the MAGAs.
On “Notes about commenting”
And, amazingly, that did not go into moderation! lj must have performed some magic...
"
I normally disable what cookies I can when on any new site. I do not recall being asked about this when I first logged on here. Apparently, I have "Third Party Cookies" enabled, for what that's worth.
On “Precursors”
It would be that very sense of realism that would make him persona non grata in the current GOP.
Imo that also killed the reelection of the elder Bush (pragmatists don't get canonized, in particular if they blaspheme against the party saint).
"
real St.Ronnie (as vile as many of his policies were) would be hunted out of the party these days as a RINO
Or, given half a chance, purge most of the "Christian nationalists" (and pretty much all of the Trumpys) from the party. The left has demonized Reagan so long** that it's easy to lose track of the fact that he actually cared about this country. And not just some delusional image of what it actually never was. Also, when some piece of ideology turned out to work in the real world, he would accept that reality and change. Something the current Republican Party is either unwilling or flat unable to do.
** Mind, I had little use for him. Not as President. Not when he was Governor here.
On “Notes about commenting”
Does anyone who has problems have their browser set to block cookies?
"
OK, just got up and posted the pending comments, which were only GftNC and wonkie. I'll contact you both off list this weekend and try to figure out what's up.
On “Precursors”
Well, they used to canonize Reagan, although the real St.Ronnie (as vile as many of his policies were) would be hunted out of the party these days as a RINO. It was and still is blasphemous to tell that he raised taxes (12 times iirc) when he realized that his initial tax cuts would have led straight to national bankruptcy.
"
Was Jesus, the Christ, a nationalist?
The Roman governor of the Roman province of Judea allegedly crucified Jesus of Nazareth for calling himself (or being called by others, perhaps) "King of the Jews". So, yes?
MAGAts are generally ignorant of the content, let alone the history, of their "faith". Or maybe not. Maybe "Christian Nationalist" is not an oxymoron but the modern-day culmination of the Jesus cult. Forget that whatever Jesus of Nazareth thought of "nationalism", American "patriotism" never crossed his mind. Ignore what namby-pamby Christians have to say about welcoming the stranger or caring for the poor, it's what the multimillionaire pastors of megachurches have to say that counts. Or what "martyrs" like Charlie Kirk have to say, for that matter.
The Gospel According to Saint Charles of Kirk got a curious sort of publicity boost by dint of his death. On the one hand, his "martyrdom" is purported to require veneration of his dedication to spreading his gospel. On the other hand, quoting it verbatim is blasphemy, according to the MAGAt Inquisition.
The MAGAts are determined to canonize Saint Charlie, but to forbid quoting him. Come to think of it, they don't like libruls quoting Jesus of Nazareth either.
--TP
On “Guestpost from Wonkie”
I think my approach is a less formalized version of what nous described. If we disconnect completely and irreparably, the alienation from each other and the dehumanization of each other both become that much easier. That makes people more willing to harm each other in various ways, and that's dangerous for everyone.
Someone on another thread some time ago brought up one of the ways the divide between sides during The Troubles in Northern Ireland was narrowed. IIRC, it had much to do with talking about things other than politics to rehumanize each other.
On “Notes about commenting”
Correction: the time stamp was 8.05, which is indeed GMT, so the first comment had been in moderation for almost two hours.
"
I thought I would see how long that last comment was in moderation, because I think last night the average for mine was about 40 minutes. It's now 21.02, so it's been in almost three hours, and I'm bored with checking on it, so this is just a catch up before I shut up shop. As I mentioned, all my boxes except website are filled and ticked. And Priest, the time stamp seems to be UK Summer Time, which is GMT+1.
On “Precursors”
On the Horst Wessel side of it, though, much of the religious right is referring to Kirk as "a warrior for God" and "a soldier of Christ." The Christian side of the culture wars is heavily influenced by the "spiritual warfare" types. They literally believe that they are engaged in spiritual combat against demons who have jurisdiction over geographical areas. It's very animist - I'm wondering if it isn't to Christianity what Shinto is to Buddhism. As such, I expect more hagiography, and more militant hagiography, as they seek to meld temporal military service with spiritual military service in their political theology. It's a very small narrative step from the valorization of the fallen soldier as political martyr and extending it to all of the Left Behind mythology and fantasies of one big, final End Times battle for the soul of humanity. Kirk is ideally situated for this project.
On “Notes about commenting”
Another test comment. Let's see
On “Precursors”
That's certainly what the Republicans are doing: deifying Charlie because that's how they legitimize themselves and delegitimize everyone else.
I've been thinking about Ezra Klein and his horrible fascist-enabling article about Kirk "doing politics the right way." Apparently, Ezra thinks that having public discussions where a hater gets to air the hateful crap is doing politics the right way.
I'm more in agreement with this guy who says in the article that he doesn't debate fascists. Why not? Because they are wrong, so there's nothing to discuss.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-problem-with-debating-fascists-from-a-guy-who-s-debated-just-about-everyone/ar-AA1MOhSE?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=68cc404ce9b94b64b1660870857945a1&ei=21
Medhi Hasan engages in lots of debates, not to change the mind of the person he's talking to, but to reach the people who are watching and listening.
We need to move the Overton Window so that discourse that promotes stochastic violence is not debated or discussed as if there was legitimacy to it. Just called out for what it is and rejected.
On “Notes about commenting”
Test comment. Curious about the time stamp, is it GMT?
On “Guestpost from Wonkie”
To remarkable degree, Republican messaging uses the precepts set out by Goebbels. One is to give people the thrill of fear, basically something to be outraged about that isn't real. Kind of like the fun of being scared at a horror movie. For literally decades, Republican messaging has consisted of telling people to be afraid of not-real while also telling them that the real is fake. So "They are going to take your guns!!!!" and "There is no climate change." War on Christmas, trans kids, white people are going to be a minority!!!! ect. From the safety of their armchairs, life becomes an exciting experience of being scared/outraged over imaginary threats, which is a reinforcing experience. It's fun. Allows the participant to feel virtuous and vicariously heroic by voting for the party that will smite the evil enemy without ever being in any real danger. Meanwhile, I'm sure that those people worry about real problems, but election after election they vote to fight the imaginary ones.
I think leading Dems are sort of hoping that the economy will be the real problem that breaks through this bullshit and gets enough voters to vote D to give the Dems some power in Congress and at the state level. Hence "kitchen table issues" versus R culture war bullshit. It worked in Sioux City at a special election.
On the other hand, Missouri, which is a hell hole of bad government, just keeps electing Republicans over and over.
I keep thinking of the Depression, when enough voters were suffering enough to give a reform politicians real power. Once the suffering receded to being mostly minorities, that desire for reform and improvement, that desire for government as a service for the common good, started losing elections to "I got mine, screw you, and besides you are just a (fill in the hater crap du jour)."
It is a privilege to be outraged all the time about imaginary shit.
On “Notes about commenting”
Final test, I'm now logged out but have had comments approved for this post.
"
The last one did. Testing to see if this comment goes to moderation while I'm logged in.
*Comment archive for non-registered commenters assembled by email address as provided.